It can be frustrating not having pictorial memories when I’m missing loved ones, and I wonder if it has contributed to my out of sight out of mind attachment, but it’s mostly just rough when I miss my childhood dog.
I have some memories that are hazily pictorial from very young, which makes me suspect a head injury from a young age may have caused it for me. No way to know for sure though, and I don’t have any lasting effects otherwise.
The only way it’s ever affected me otherwise is in my sense of creativity, where I’m drawn more to music and language than drawing. I would like to, but it’s just difficult to do anything that isn’t in front of me, so I tend to do zentablges which get created as they go. I also like to take photographs to remember important places and moments, but I’m not particularly set on capturing every one. I’m back and forth on taking lots of photos cause I’m very in the moment, and other times I regret not taking more since it’s basically lost visually unless I go back again.
Thankfully, I’m not without visuals entirely. Aphantasia is separate from the hypnogogic state of sleep, so things like lucid dreaming and that pre-imagery stage are one way I can experience it. However it’s rare, and dreams themselves for me are primarily black and white with a red haze from time to time. Hypnogogia is pretty vibrant though.
First of all, zentangles! Wow! I’ve taken note of that. Impressive af.
Regarding your description of how you think - This is the most amazing thing I’ve read in this comment section so far, because we are like polar opposites in this sense. It’s honestly quite mystical to me, like how can someone exist without fantasy and mental visualization?
I’m wondering if you have a question for me maybe. I think entirely in a form of daydreaming or experience, called picture or visual thinking. The name is a bit of a misnomer because it includes the other senses as well.
They’re quite fun! Highly recommend! There’re patterns you can learn but I like just free forming it from what feels nice!
And yeah I try not to think too much about what I’m missing out on, like that meme “replaying the entirety of {Movie} in my head”, or what it would be like to be able to visualize something unique and bring that to paper. But, I feel I have skills in other ways that I’ve developed. I feel very strong in analysis and putting together threads that not everyone seems to, so I have leaned into work that utilizes that. Like I said with performing arts, literary/media analysis, and so many of my hobbies are creatively focused. So sometimes it gets frustrating, cause it would be so nice to get a full sense of what I’m “imagining”. But it doesn’t mean I don’t have imagination, just not in pictures. So it’s effectively making up details and threading those together.
Also unlike some, since aphantasia is a range, I do have spatial and audio “imagination”, and I’ve been playing music from a very young age so I have a learned sense of perfect pitch that’s stuck with me, and my spatial sense is using relative objects and knowing the estimated dimensions of an object. Every few months I would reorganize my room and leading up to it I would think about what would best be where, which in turn was very helpful for running events in my adult life!
With that sense of spatial awareness I have found that even though I have a aphantasia it’s sort of representative of how Daredevil from Marvel comics sees, because when I know a space I’m able to walk it with my eyes closed very well, even though I can’t see anything in my mind I “feel” this shadowy haze that makes up my dreams and when I try to visualize things. Remembering where objects are is also fairly strong since it can be made into a simple set of boxes that represent the details. Like on my desk, pen holder, keyboard, mouse, devices, and when I go to look for the device it’s usually how I last remember it. I don’t have face blindness, but I can’t re-picture someone’s face. I “know” what it looks like but it’s not helpful because there’s no reference in real space (until I see them or someone who has a feature they have). The same goes for scenery, I know what it looked like just recreating it visually is not possible.
When I close my eyes and try to visualize, it’s black, but static. I also have a bit of a color aura, sort of like those Mandelbrot infinite depth things. It’s always circular, never perfect, and it usually comes from outside of my 2D black plane when I close my eyes, enclosing a deep dark shaded color (usually r g b, and grey only). There’s not much I can do, I think somewhat slow it down or speed it up if I “try” but there’s not a lot else. It’s never gone side to side or anything (until hypnogogia where it gets all crazy). But, the static… It’s ever so slightly affected by what I know. I know what my table looks like, so I can shift it in space to get a feel for if it fits. I’m pretty strong with this and it’s the closest thing I have to visualization, but it’s so far removed from it. It’s like a black and white version of a magnet on an old TV… Just… Barely formed lines and depth, so faint but just barely there to be workable.
With that I like to do blueprint sketching when I come up with those ideas, since that is the closest I have to being able to put my mind on paper. It’s helpful because it’s permanent, and whatever I’m “working” in my mind is very, very brief. Sadly, it works well only for blueprinting, so really not anything artistic, just conceptual. Because of that I like to say I have conceptualization just not visualization, since as long as I’ve seen what it is we’re talking about I have the sense of what it is.
It’s really interesting being a detail focused mind since I can’t help it, but I also don’t remember everything so it’s really just what happens to stick out to me, or if I’m specifically on the lookout for it.
What’s interesting is that aphantasia seems fairly uncommon, and visualization seems fairly common. Most people I talk to are surprised to hear that other people do not have visualization, or that the extent of theirs may differ from someone else’s – like you said you have other senses as well, which not everyone who has it does, or some have varying intensities. I think it can also play into people’s social and religious interactions as well, since some people are so heavily affected by their visualization. I’ve known a number of Christians who smoked weed for the first time and their social constructs that they see Jesus or demons and angels fighting which, well… That’s awesome, and so far removed from my perception of reality haha.
What I find interesting is that when taking certain psychedelics, this perception is changed in different ways (obviously I guess haha). Acid had distorted visual reality, and just made the color patterns more chaotic. Mushrooms also distorted visual reality, but also made closed eye visuals more circular and colorful. Neither really did much for me other than making my “visualization” more like the random chaotic hypnogogic state. But DMT… That was a wildly different experience that actually had me experience a fraction of what you probably experience on a daily basis. From fractals in 3D with colors I’ve never imagined to full on visualization, it was very overwhelming! There were other reasons too, but there was really nothing like it. I literally can’t imagine what it would be like to control something like that!
Super interesting! Saved it so I can go over it again later.
Regarding religion I have a funny story. I once met this guy and we had this amazing spiritual connection. Really powerful. So anyway we connect. He’s like I can give you some lessons if you like.
So a year or two later I pick him up on that. He says next Saturday at 1300 sit down and close your eyes.
Mind you I meditate and I’ve had some powerful experiences, but it seemed he didn’t quite catch on to that. I was like well do you want me to meditate? Where? And so on, trying to get details out of him. But he wouldn’t give me any. Just had to close my eyes at 1300 on that specific day. I dunno, crazy stuff, but why the heck not.
So I went out into the forest with a good friend and it was nearly 13. So we sit down on the path and start meditating.
My dude I was having a most interesting experience! I was on a beach and it was pitch black at night. And over the water this huge elephant person floated towards me. I am talking like 1km high. It looked a lot like one of those Indian gods. It was quite moving and a unique experience.
So I was all like wow that was amazing I can’t wait to talk to him. I got home and called him and told him the story.
😂 He was speechless and had no clue wtf I was on about 🤣
Apparently he’s into some kind of esoteric cult that has like a hierarchy and I was gonna end up paying him for it. He was gonna like hook me up to their mental social network. Like wow one of the biggest wtf moments of my life.
It made me wonder a lot about how that can be. That two people can feel such a powerful emotional spiritual connection, but then just absolutely have different ideas about how it works. This guy wasn’t crazy or stupid or anything, but well, I did piss him off somehow. I dunno I guess he was prideful 🤷🏻♀️
Does that complicate things in your life?
It can be frustrating not having pictorial memories when I’m missing loved ones, and I wonder if it has contributed to my out of sight out of mind attachment, but it’s mostly just rough when I miss my childhood dog.
I have some memories that are hazily pictorial from very young, which makes me suspect a head injury from a young age may have caused it for me. No way to know for sure though, and I don’t have any lasting effects otherwise.
The only way it’s ever affected me otherwise is in my sense of creativity, where I’m drawn more to music and language than drawing. I would like to, but it’s just difficult to do anything that isn’t in front of me, so I tend to do zentablges which get created as they go. I also like to take photographs to remember important places and moments, but I’m not particularly set on capturing every one. I’m back and forth on taking lots of photos cause I’m very in the moment, and other times I regret not taking more since it’s basically lost visually unless I go back again.
Thankfully, I’m not without visuals entirely. Aphantasia is separate from the hypnogogic state of sleep, so things like lucid dreaming and that pre-imagery stage are one way I can experience it. However it’s rare, and dreams themselves for me are primarily black and white with a red haze from time to time. Hypnogogia is pretty vibrant though.
First of all, zentangles! Wow! I’ve taken note of that. Impressive af.
Regarding your description of how you think - This is the most amazing thing I’ve read in this comment section so far, because we are like polar opposites in this sense. It’s honestly quite mystical to me, like how can someone exist without fantasy and mental visualization?
I’m wondering if you have a question for me maybe. I think entirely in a form of daydreaming or experience, called picture or visual thinking. The name is a bit of a misnomer because it includes the other senses as well.
They’re quite fun! Highly recommend! There’re patterns you can learn but I like just free forming it from what feels nice!
And yeah I try not to think too much about what I’m missing out on, like that meme “replaying the entirety of {Movie} in my head”, or what it would be like to be able to visualize something unique and bring that to paper. But, I feel I have skills in other ways that I’ve developed. I feel very strong in analysis and putting together threads that not everyone seems to, so I have leaned into work that utilizes that. Like I said with performing arts, literary/media analysis, and so many of my hobbies are creatively focused. So sometimes it gets frustrating, cause it would be so nice to get a full sense of what I’m “imagining”. But it doesn’t mean I don’t have imagination, just not in pictures. So it’s effectively making up details and threading those together.
Also unlike some, since aphantasia is a range, I do have spatial and audio “imagination”, and I’ve been playing music from a very young age so I have a learned sense of perfect pitch that’s stuck with me, and my spatial sense is using relative objects and knowing the estimated dimensions of an object. Every few months I would reorganize my room and leading up to it I would think about what would best be where, which in turn was very helpful for running events in my adult life!
With that sense of spatial awareness I have found that even though I have a aphantasia it’s sort of representative of how Daredevil from Marvel comics sees, because when I know a space I’m able to walk it with my eyes closed very well, even though I can’t see anything in my mind I “feel” this shadowy haze that makes up my dreams and when I try to visualize things. Remembering where objects are is also fairly strong since it can be made into a simple set of boxes that represent the details. Like on my desk, pen holder, keyboard, mouse, devices, and when I go to look for the device it’s usually how I last remember it. I don’t have face blindness, but I can’t re-picture someone’s face. I “know” what it looks like but it’s not helpful because there’s no reference in real space (until I see them or someone who has a feature they have). The same goes for scenery, I know what it looked like just recreating it visually is not possible.
When I close my eyes and try to visualize, it’s black, but static. I also have a bit of a color aura, sort of like those Mandelbrot infinite depth things. It’s always circular, never perfect, and it usually comes from outside of my 2D black plane when I close my eyes, enclosing a deep dark shaded color (usually r g b, and grey only). There’s not much I can do, I think somewhat slow it down or speed it up if I “try” but there’s not a lot else. It’s never gone side to side or anything (until hypnogogia where it gets all crazy). But, the static… It’s ever so slightly affected by what I know. I know what my table looks like, so I can shift it in space to get a feel for if it fits. I’m pretty strong with this and it’s the closest thing I have to visualization, but it’s so far removed from it. It’s like a black and white version of a magnet on an old TV… Just… Barely formed lines and depth, so faint but just barely there to be workable.
With that I like to do blueprint sketching when I come up with those ideas, since that is the closest I have to being able to put my mind on paper. It’s helpful because it’s permanent, and whatever I’m “working” in my mind is very, very brief. Sadly, it works well only for blueprinting, so really not anything artistic, just conceptual. Because of that I like to say I have conceptualization just not visualization, since as long as I’ve seen what it is we’re talking about I have the sense of what it is.
It’s really interesting being a detail focused mind since I can’t help it, but I also don’t remember everything so it’s really just what happens to stick out to me, or if I’m specifically on the lookout for it.
What’s interesting is that aphantasia seems fairly uncommon, and visualization seems fairly common. Most people I talk to are surprised to hear that other people do not have visualization, or that the extent of theirs may differ from someone else’s – like you said you have other senses as well, which not everyone who has it does, or some have varying intensities. I think it can also play into people’s social and religious interactions as well, since some people are so heavily affected by their visualization. I’ve known a number of Christians who smoked weed for the first time and their social constructs that they see Jesus or demons and angels fighting which, well… That’s awesome, and so far removed from my perception of reality haha.
What I find interesting is that when taking certain psychedelics, this perception is changed in different ways (obviously I guess haha). Acid had distorted visual reality, and just made the color patterns more chaotic. Mushrooms also distorted visual reality, but also made closed eye visuals more circular and colorful. Neither really did much for me other than making my “visualization” more like the random chaotic hypnogogic state. But DMT… That was a wildly different experience that actually had me experience a fraction of what you probably experience on a daily basis. From fractals in 3D with colors I’ve never imagined to full on visualization, it was very overwhelming! There were other reasons too, but there was really nothing like it. I literally can’t imagine what it would be like to control something like that!
Super interesting! Saved it so I can go over it again later.
Regarding religion I have a funny story. I once met this guy and we had this amazing spiritual connection. Really powerful. So anyway we connect. He’s like I can give you some lessons if you like.
So a year or two later I pick him up on that. He says next Saturday at 1300 sit down and close your eyes.
Mind you I meditate and I’ve had some powerful experiences, but it seemed he didn’t quite catch on to that. I was like well do you want me to meditate? Where? And so on, trying to get details out of him. But he wouldn’t give me any. Just had to close my eyes at 1300 on that specific day. I dunno, crazy stuff, but why the heck not.
So I went out into the forest with a good friend and it was nearly 13. So we sit down on the path and start meditating.
My dude I was having a most interesting experience! I was on a beach and it was pitch black at night. And over the water this huge elephant person floated towards me. I am talking like 1km high. It looked a lot like one of those Indian gods. It was quite moving and a unique experience.
So I was all like wow that was amazing I can’t wait to talk to him. I got home and called him and told him the story.
😂 He was speechless and had no clue wtf I was on about 🤣
Apparently he’s into some kind of esoteric cult that has like a hierarchy and I was gonna end up paying him for it. He was gonna like hook me up to their mental social network. Like wow one of the biggest wtf moments of my life.
It made me wonder a lot about how that can be. That two people can feel such a powerful emotional spiritual connection, but then just absolutely have different ideas about how it works. This guy wasn’t crazy or stupid or anything, but well, I did piss him off somehow. I dunno I guess he was prideful 🤷🏻♀️
FYI I left a top level comment