as a person that came from the 3rd world country and new in fediverse environment, i genuinely would like to know about this.
edit: thanks for the replies! sorry, i literally don’t know the reason since i’m not a western lol. twitter/x is too biased especially when musk openly supports trump so i came here and seeing fediverse is mostly are harris or biden (when he’s still up for the candidate) supporters. don’t know about reddit tho, i only use reddit as a forum for linux and programming stuff.
My brother in christ you cannot compromise on fucking genocide. Liberals like you are so fucking scared of the orange man that you are willing to let hundreds of thousands die without even asking for better.
If all you’re voting on is how they respond to Gaza, Harris isn’t great but Trump is exponentially worse. He’s openly said that Israel should continue what they’re doing. In fact, in every metric of comparison Trump is exponentially worse. It’s not that we’re scared of Trump, it’s that he is so much worse in every regard.
Yeah no shit but im not gonna settle for genocide. Slower genocide is still genocide and if I can do anything to prevent the murder of hundreds of thousands of people I will do so. I genuinely believe that witholding my vote and protesting has a chance of altering Harris’ position here.
We cant stop a genocide in the future if were too busy fighting one in our backyard. Our system is fucked, we are forced to play the game, so we have pick our battles.
What good does altering Harris’s position do if she doesn’t win?
If she wins without ceasing material support for actual genocide then we have failed as a people. Politicans are beholden to us not the other way around. It is our demands they should listen to not the demands of raytheon, boeing, palantir, and others that uphold their wealth and power.
Thats not even mentioning the fact that not supporting genocide basically guarantees her win. This is an incredible popular position that many many people passionately care about. She supports genocide because she wants to
But what good is punishing Harris by withdrawing your vote? What does this even do except inch everything closer to Trump - who will make the issue you’re prioritizing, worse?
It tells her that she might fucking lose if she doesn’t change her stance. Do you really think a politician will do anything for the people if they can win without doing it? How do you think politics works? Asking nicely? I’m exerting political pressure not “punishing her”
I think you are misunderstanding the nature of the conflict. The war is between Iran and Israel. Gaza is just one tiny battlefield in the larger war. Iran and its proxies don’t want to solve the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Cui bono? Iran and its proxies, that’s who. Kamala Harris knows this. She isn’t stupid and she is well-advised by experts. You and your fellow protesters aren’t helping at all, you are just making her job of defeating Trump harder. Wake up, my friend.
Hezbollah and Hamas are Iranian proxies that have wrecked Lebanon and Gaza respectively. Hamas’s murderous attack on Israeli civilians on October 7 was all about creating chaos, provoking Israel, and undermining the Abraham Accords. It wasn’t about solving the problems of the Palestinian people, it was done to further Iran’s “Axis of Resistance” goals. In that sense, Hamas’s October 7 operation was very similar in nature and purpose to Bin Laden’s 9/11 plan, and Israel is responding much the same as the US did back in the early 2000s against the Taliban and al-Qaeda.
Iran and Hamas started the current clash with the purpose of provoking Israel into a drastic response in Gaza. Gazan civilians are caught in the middle, but if you think it’s Israel’s fault, you are falling exactly in line with what Iran and their proxies intended.
The Russians, for all their faults, have a well-developed sense of realpolitik, and they have a term for people like you and your fellow protesters: useful idiots. I prefer the term “naive but well-intentioned”, but there is quite a lot of overlap in this case. That “naive but well-intentioned” outlook is fine, even laudable, most of the time, but it is quite unhelpful at this moment when the competition between Harris and Trump is so close.
You should really learn some history, like any history tbh
^ This is either a bot or a 14 year old. Impossible to tell nowadays
Ok so 14 year old it is then!
Hanlon’s razor, my friend. Lemmy is either filled with “bots” for no better reason than to try to persuade the 5k active users which will not be persuaded or it’s just another bunch of random people, a good percentage of which will always be idiots.
I think the latter is a lot more likely, don’t you?
The orange man is not the solution here, to be clear
Yes, of course. I would never encourage people to vote for a fascist
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Harris is materially supporting a genocide and uncritically parroting the rhetoric of israeli fascist. I am telling people not to vote for her because she too is a fascist. Should she stop supporting this slaughter then I would happily encourage everyone to vote for her
lol no
America is, unfortunately, a two party system. If not enough people vote for Harris, Trump wins. Period. There are no options besides Harris and Trump, and only one of them has talked about how Israel should literally nuke Gaza (I’ll let you take a guess on which one it was.)
I see your idealism, and I agree that any amount of genocide is unacceptable, but letting Trump win will just accelerate the genocide in Gaza, expand it to the West Bank (more noticeably, anyways), and likely start new genocides here in America. I’ve been writing to my representatives and sending them articles about the atrocities being committed by the IDF and imploring them to do something about it…but I’m not dumb enough to withhold my vote from the Centrists and allow the Fascists to take over.
I repeat: withholding your vote from Harris is effectively a vote for Trump because America is a two party system, and there’s only two options to pick from.
I’ll withhold my vote from trump then I guess. Fascism isn’t something you can vote away, its roots are entirely systemic and the Democrats have no desire to do away with it anyway. People being scared of fascism is basically their best argument for getting elected these days. It’s very useful for them.
Besides, what incentive do the Democrats have to change their policy if they won’t lose a single voter. I’m not so naive that I believe politicians in either party determine policy based off morality.
There are lower ranking Democrats that are espousing the right ideas about things like the filibuster, gerrymandering, and even some that are agitating about the electoral college BS. The best strategy I see right now is to clear as many Republicans out of office as we can, and support the newer, lower-level representatives that are aiming to affect real change.
My voting strategy has always been to “vote blue, no matter who” on the top of the ticket, then do my research and be more selective about the offices lower down, especially in the primaries. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter if more progressive candidates take hold of the House and the Senate if everything they pass just gets vetoed by the fascist in the Oval Office anyways.
I with you on voting in local elections. When in conjunctions with grassroots organizing this is where change can truly be made
It’s so hard to take people seriously who talk like turbo redditors. My BrOtHeR iN lOw KeY cHrIsT.
Thats fair but it’s probably just a generational or regional divide. For instance, I personally can’t take people who use that form of text capitalization seriously. No shame though I just associate it with 7th grade
You’re not gonna believe this, but I’m pretty sure that was the intent, to mock you
Oh, I’m not very good at detecting those sorts of things
Somehow people think that pointing out that anyone who isn’t Trump are pro-genocide means that Trump somehow isn’t pro-genocide.
Like you’re not allowed to think about two problems at once. Or that there are no other options…
I get that but I’m not gonna criticize trump for being pro-genocide bc we can’t do shit fuck about that. Atleast with Harris there is a slim chance of changing her position on the matter by witholding votes and being vocal about it. Stop doing genocide has gotta be the most reasonable political demand to exist right?
Yes. Exactly! The reason people keep bitching about Harris and genocide is because they hope something might actually happen about it.
Biden was an absolutely terrible candidate (that I was going to vote for) and probably the only person who could lose against Trump. Because people constantly bitched about how bad he was they changed the candidate.
Harris doesn’t get to use Trump as a not-as-bad-as screen, and given that we don’t have the option of not voting for her, everyone should be applying every other available form of pressure to discourage her from enabling genocide or otherwise maintaining the status quo.
Now is not the time. After she is elected, get out there and put the pressure on her. But it makes no sense to risk the fate of the entire country on this.
This will come as an absolute shock to you. You can vote for someone you criticize…
Which party was it that dogpiles on anyone that dares criticize their shitty candidates again?
The point of saying it before the election is that the expectations are set.
I can understand that you can vote for someone you criticize. But it’s obviously implied that you’re withholding your vote unless the administration changes their tune, which means you’re not voting for someone you’re criticizing at the moment. If not, then you have nothing to pressure with.
I am all for constructive criticism but I still don’t think this is an effective means to accomplish getting this point across.
Obviously implied? So there’s nothing in my comment that directly contradicts that and will make you look really silly in a moment?
What kind of democracy is one where you can’t even criticize the candidate because “it’s not the right time” right before the elections when the candidates are forced to make changes to make the public happy? After they are in power, it’s another 4 years of BS, and by the third year the same cycle begins and you are not allowed to criticize your candidate.
You’re willing to let millions die for how many more generations in Gaza with Hamas in charge, and tens of millions if Iran shoots its shot at Israel? Grow up.
You keep his name out of your fuckdamn heathen mouth…