Relegated? The iPhone has always had USB 2.0 speeds…
so very apple to punish it’s own users because they have too many old components they need to use up, but if you’re paying for PRO you get actual 2023 modern USB.
so very, very apple.
Bro what modern it’s USB 3.0 lmao
USB 3.0 is already 15 years old.
the adaptor is usb3, the controller interface limits you to usb 2.0 speed. what part of the article was hard to comprehend?
Connector is USB type C, controller inside of it supports USB up to version 2. With USB you have different connectors but all of them are backwards compatible. So yes, Apple put outdated chip in the phone on regular versions so you get only USB 2.0 speeds. Type C is obviously capable of much more than USB 2, power delivery included… which is the part of OP statement. You get modern connector with outdated interface. Next year they will just trickle down Pro hardware to regular phones and call it “upgrade”. That’s what Apple does.
Well, they put last year’s chip in the phone, which does not support USB 3 speeds. If the non Pro iPhone 16 won’t support usb 3, then it’s deliberate kneecapping. Now it’s just unfortunate.
I still find it scummy that you get a year old hardware at current year prices. If the price was not at flagship level, then sure you could justify older chips.
Well, the price isn’t at flagship level. At least not from Apple’s view. You pay less, you get less (which is still en par if not ahead in most regards, compared to the competition)
Simple anchoring effect at work. Price flagship higher, so expensive “cheap” option looks cheaper by comparison. Truth of the matter is, it’s all inflated prices, not only exclusive to Apple.
It’s kind of funny that when they used lightning, they got a pass for failing to keep up with the industry standard that’s over a decode old.
Well, not really. Most people complained for years now about lightning. Not necessarily about the lack of usb 3 speeds but that’s probably because for the vast majority of people, that doesn’t matter
What part of their comment was hard to comprehend?
They’re just saying even the usb 3.0 in the pro model is not modern.
Lately the base model is usually last year’s old pro processors and micro controllers. Next year the base 16 will probably have the faster IO if the trend continues.
Completely agree. No company redesigns all of their products each year. They redesign the top tier and then its shifts downward the next year. GPU, CPU, Motherboard, hell even cars do this. Not all models included Carplay and Android Auto when it launched, just the high end cars did, but now all of them do.
USB IO speed aside, Apple’s phones have gotten to the point where 3 and 4 year old chipsets are still VERY performant. They now have the wiggle room to put more bleeding edge silicon in top tier phones, be ok with smaller yields at first, and scale fabrication over the year.
That all being said, given that everyone was going to been eyeing this USB port, they probably should’ve taken one on the chin and changed the stupid IO speed. Although, the people complaining about this probably aren’t Apple’s core market anyway. So maybe they were right.
Exactly. And the usb controller is built into the chip.
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Did you watch the presentation? They literally showed and said the usb controller was part of the A17 Pro SoC
You’re right. Good catch.
I suspect next year’s base will have a revised version of this year’s processor. The iPhone 15 Pro has an A17 Pro. This is the first A Series chip with a “Pro” label. I don’t expect something “Pro” to make it into the base model.
What will change between the A17 Pro and the A17? Who knows. It might include the upgraded USB controller though.
This is Apple at it again, do bare minimum and charge premium. They left USB2 because it required no work, but they had to put type C because EU regulation. Since USB is backwards compatible, solution is just solder half of the connector, charge premium price and fuck you customers. And they are right, people don’t care. Instead they go defending it like “I don’t need it anyway”, “Am not a pro, I don’t need it”, etc.
Ah, yes last year. Usb 2.0 was invented in, like what, 2001? A shitty phone cpu from 2 years ago is probably at least as powerful as the pentium 4 I had back in the day. Come the fuck on.
Even USB3 is 15 years old already.
Just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if they were reusing some boards or controllers with limited throughput that their manufacturing plants and fabs were already pumping out. Cook got famous for being an operational efficiency nerd that made sure Apple had very little spare parts and inventory on the books.
But yeah, iPhone physical IO speeds have been slow for a looong time. My guess is that so much of Apple’s install base is syncing over the cloud that it hasn’t been a priority.
The biggest applause at the in-person event was, no lie, for the larger cloud storage plans.
This is why companies like Apple are malicious.
Or because the base iPhone 15 uses last year’s Pro chip which didn’t have a USB3 controller.
A Raspberry Pi from years ago has USB 3.1. Restricting the latest iPhone is just laughable.
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And probably have a separate controller? I’m not very technical at all but I’d assume it’s much easier to fit a separate one on a large surface like the iPad has
Edit: google confirms the iPads have a separate USB3 controller
I had a very quick check and I think iPads use an external chip for USB 3 - and there may just not have been space on the iPhone’s logic board for that. I think you’d have to judge it next year - since the base models seem to be using last year’s pro chips - if the base model doesn’t support 3.1 speeds then, something fishy is happening
There is no A16 iPad (yet?).
So - in your opinion - any company shipping a USB 2 device is ‘malicious’?
You obviously don’t get the point. Educate yourself on Apple and USB-C, please.
You mean the Apple that provided more than 20% of the engineering force that developed USBC?
Or the Apple that released the first USBC laptop to market?
That Apple?
Or the apple that fought against USB-C for their phones since basically forever and now implemented it with USB 2? Yes, this one.
It doesn’t sound like you actually have a rebuttal.
Apple’s base model hardware usually uses last year’s pro chipsets. They’ve been doing this for a bit now.
If the trend continues, next year the base model will get all the newer CPUs, micro controllers, etc.
Here’s the rational answer, folks. Anything else is your emotional response.
If the aim of a company is to maximize profits then every company in Apple’s stead would do the same thing. Not defending it but that’s the world we created.
It does feel kind of spiteful. But honestly, it is surprisingly difficult to find USB 3 USB-C cables anyway. Most of them are USB 2 unless you spring for Thunderbolt cables.
No they’re not? At least when I check amazon or any other online retailer, USB-C cables are almost always USB 3.0 or higher. Only the ultra cheap ones are not.
We’re talking USB-C to USB-C right?
Do you have links for some of the ones you looked at? Because I checked a few Anker and Apple cables and they were all USB 2.0.
It does seem to be easier to get USB 3 Type A to type C cables, but not C to C.
There’s nothing more spiteful than not buying either of them
I swear I have a USB C cable that charges faster oriented one way. I haven’t really proved it or anything but it really does feel like it. Maybe I’m crazy. Is it possible? It’s “normal” USB on the other side.
You aren’t crazy, but barring any defects or damage this shouldn’t be happening
I had a cable which only charged plugged in one way up. I assume some of the pins were damaged.
Welcome to the Android world where even good smartphones worth 400 $ only support USB 2.0
My cheap android phones have had usb3 for like 5 years =\
Most Androids still only get USB2.0, but not the ones that are in the price range of the iPhone.
Edit: Feels like I’m back on Reddit with people not reading my comment, I just said that although most units of Android phones are budget to mid-range, mine being a mid-range (Poco F3), Android phones anywhere near the range of an iPhone in Cost is USB 3.0+
I bought my oneplus 10 pro for sub $500 during a sale, and it has usb3.1. It’s last year’s model. You can get a pixel 6 with usb3.1 for less than $400. A Galaxy S21 has usb3.2, less than $500.
That’s almost every major android brand for $500 or less with 3.1 or better. The cheapest you can buy an iPhone 15, the one with usb2.0, is $800. What are you on about?
Cheap as in 100 and less brand new? The third-party market can get you a usb3 type c port from a 2 year old phone at that price range. This is cheap to have. Apple is not doing it because it costs money, but it is a plus for them. They are doing it to push power users, who know enough about technical specs, to buy the more expensive product. The pro has USB 3, and even then, the charging speeds are 12 watt. They are trickling the upgrades ever slower now because the technological advances have slowed down. They are doing it to create hype and advertising the new stuff every year instead of drastically changing their product. It is planned absolesence from making certain parts weak on purpose.
Most units are budget/mid-range, I’ve got a fairly good mid-range Poco F3 and it’s still USB 2.0, most units of android phones are that or below.
I said that everything close to price range of an iPhone is USB 3.0 or greater. The point was that the iPhone 15 is A$1500 and has the same port as my A$600 2-yr old android. The budget specs of the base model is absurd enough without being hyperbolic.
I don’t use data on the USB port very often and when I do it’s always to make an access point over USB so the USB2.0 bandwidth is enough for my use.
I wonder if people really have a use for USB3.
Apart from making phone more expensive, I don’t see a real need for me
Argument can be made if your camera doesn’t support 4k or 60fps, there’s very little need for higher speeds than USB2.0 since files generated won’t be as big. However if you keep using your phone as a camera to record long videos, then yes it’s annoying to have slower interface.
That’s a valid point.
Also is there’s a USB3 controller at all in the phone to connect the camera inside the phone? Or does the camera talk on a different bus on the SoC?
With Apple devices I honestly don’t know. With others SoC is the one exposing the rest of the hardware and acts are intermediate. Historically in general giving DMA access to any hardware on the system has proven fatal when it comes to security. You do gain speed, but expose so much in the process.
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it’s not universally true, there are plenty of cheap and expensive models with USB 3
My phone is 6 years old at this point, was only $350, and uses USB-C.
USB-C is a connector and, by itself, says nothing about the protocol in use. That’s the important part.
5Ghz wifi and Airdrop is what Apple wants people to use. I stopped connecting a USB cable except for doing a physical backup with iMazing on this 256GB model. I just trust the hard line more when making a 232GB backup.
- USB2.0/3.0 = 480MB/s
- USB3.1 G1 = 625MB/s
- 5Ghz Wifi = 850-1000MB/s
- USB3.2 G2x2 = 2500MB/s
Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3-2-explained
5 Gbps to MB/s = 625 MB/s 6 Gbps to MB/s = 750 MB/s 7 Gbps to MB/s = 875 MB/s 8 Gbps to MB/s = 1000 MB/s 9 Gbps to MB/s = 1125 MB/s 10 Gbps to MB/s = 1250 MB/s
Is it USB 2.0
It only fast charges in a 3.0 port so I’m gonna have to assume it’s 3.0 not 2.0.
That has nothing to do with whether it’s USB 2.0 or 3.0 because it’s backwards compatible. What phone do you have?
How is it backwards compatible with fast charging if it only fast charges in 3.0 ports but not 2.0 ports? It will work in 2.0 sure, but it doesn’t fast charge over it since 2.0 doesn’t have the same electrical output as 3. I have a LG Thinq V6.
That phone isnt 6 years old, it was released in 2020. It wasnt $350 either but $800. Weird points youre trying to make…
after a little time most of these handsets see deep discounts and special pricing from carriers
I paid $350 for it, for certain. I thought I got it in 2018 but it seems I’m just misremembering.
The main point is that android certainly uses USB 3.0 pretty commonly, and not just 2.0. If it fast charges, it ain’t fucking 2.0.
USB Power Delivery (fast charge) doesn’t require USB 3.0 speeds, just USB-C connectors.
Disagree. My Redmi Note 11 can charge up to 33W using my current Anker Nano II (65W), previously UGREEN 20W charger. It has USB-C 2.0 port.
My Nothing Phone 1 is USB 2.0. I’ve never used it to transfer data
I love how these articles happen and are posted and everyone flames at apple.
This isn’t that different than the Galaxy note 20 not having ultra wide band but the Ultra version does.
All companies do this, otherwise why have different tiers or different models.
Don’t get me wrong, I am thrilled they are finally using USB-C. I enjoyed the lightning when if first came out. The only cord at the time you could plug in and there was no up or down, it just want in no matter what orientation. Apple just wanted to charge everyone to use it and they screwed up with that. Now there is a full standard for every device, this is good.
Apple fan boys and Android fan boys need to chill out. It’s just a phone, not an allegiance.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare UWB and USB 2.
One is already an old ass standard. I don’t even know what devices aren’t USB 3 anymore. You actively have to go out of your way to be a dick and downgrade your phone to USB 2.0
Not to mention the price difference is literally negligible.
Apple is just being assholes here. They already downgrade the non pro by removing cameras and whatnot. Touching the USB speed is a special kind of fuck you.
The processor in de iPhone 15 doesn’t support 3.0 speeds. The one in de pro (different proc) does. The cable of the pro doesn’t support 3.0 speeds. But neither do the cables that come with other brand phones.
Companies are dicks. Or something…
They didn’t downgrade anything…
iPhones have the USB controller as part of the SoC. Not a separate controller like the iPads or laptops. They don’t have the space for it.
The non pro this year is using last years pro chip which didn’t have a USB 3 controller on it. For the non pro they are repinning the port to USB c to repurpose the controller on the chip. But they physically cant add USB 3 to it.
They also never removed cameras from the non pro model either. Idk where you pulled that from. The XS and XS Max both only had two cameras, and when they went to the iPhone/iPhone Pro model with the 11, the non pro still had two and they added a third for the pro.
I agree the comparison between the two in terms of use is not correct or fair even. It was more of a comparison of the chips being included on the phone. I clearly did not do a good job explaining that. I assumed most people would have understood that the A17 pro chip is what is the upgrade and is the controller for the USB vs the A16 that is last years model.
In a computer the price may be negligible but in a phone is the entire architecture of the chip so its not negligible. I don’t think they are being assholes as much as not spending shit tons of money to redesign and manufacture new processors for the phone when they have old stock that can be used.
Its a similar model that a lot of companies do, take last years best chip and put it in this years second tier device. I am not saying its great for consumers I am just saying its what is done. Not upgrading a chip is not the same as downgrading it.
At apple scale I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that giving everyone the USB 3 chip would reduce overall cost, or that apple is doing the crippling in software or firmware.
USB 3 actually has flaws that make some devices functionally useless with USB 3 devices around.
USB 3 notoriously emits noise in the 2.4ghz radio spectrum, requiring extra precautions and development cost in order to reduce the effect.
This is often why 2.4ghz mouse and keyboards specifically require USB 2.0 connections.
I’m not saying that’s why Apple did it, but it isn’t a solved problem in the least and USB isn’t just a no-thought upgrade.
This isn’t that different than the Galaxy note 20 not having ultra wide band but the Ultra version does.
Are we considering that UWB is as prominent as USB and you’ll be using it almost daily with a multitude of devices?
No, that’s a fair point. The Ultra Wide Band is not the same in terms of use and known like USB is. My comparison was meant to be of the chips on the phone. People are arguing that apple is “downgrading” to USB 2.0 but in reality they just aren’t upgrading the A16 chip that is the USB controller. This is similar to the Galaxy Note 20 not having the upgraded chip like the Galaxy Note 20 Ultra. There may be other comparisons that would be more accurate but I remembered this one specifically when I was looking to upgrade Galaxy.
I get the point you’re trying to make, and while it’s not a 1:1 correlation, some of the responses you’re getting indicate that non-Apple users can be just as fervent in their views as what would be called “fanboys”.
I would like to think there is some middle ground here, with Apple having to modify their production timelines to comply with EU mandates, but still keeping in line with past hardware releases. That is to say - yes it sucks that non-Pro models will not have all the latest features, but this is pretty much consistent with the past few production releases.
UWB is 2019 technology which has a very very limited use and even more limited range. USB 2.0 predates iPhones by 4 years and USB3.0 is at this point 15 years old. You’ve been sold polished turd at premium prices and everyone is now stuck with their mouths full defending the move when it reality it’s last years pro hardware shoved into this year’s “new” device with USB type C hacked in to avoid EU ban.
This has nothing to do with when people last transferred files from their devices or what you like or what you think everyone else will need. This is the case of Apple selling you wheelbarrow at the price of a car and people saying it goes fast downhill and they never wanted to go uphill anyway.
Exactly I can’t remember the last time I transferred anything to my phone via a cable. Just nice to have one cord for charging.
Good thing you represent everyone in this case then.
My Nothing Phone 1 is USB 2.0
Really apple? And they did all that mother nature bullshit with octavia spencer while it was europe who forced them to use a universal connector and stop polluting the world with useless pathetic cables
A $5 Pen drive transfers data faster. Some day, Apple will be able to figure how to do this in a multi hundred dollar phone. Need more MBAs.
Apple gonna Apple.
The only people who need the USB 3 transfer speeds are going to be Pro users. For everyone else, it doesn’t matter.
What? Do you realize how insanely slow USB 2 is? Good luck transferring even a tiny ass video. I don’t think you need to be a pro user to want to transfer some media from your phone and not take all day…
Most people using Apple devices don’t transfer media via cord anymore. The average user only uses the cloud for those things.
I’ve had an iPhone for the last 10 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve needed to use a cable instead of iCloud/Dropbox/other file share service.
This stuff transfers over WiFi quickly. I don’t think 99.9% of iPhone owners have even plugged a phone into a computer in the last 10 years.
I’ll go and shoot 30gb of photos and within a half hour of uploading them they’re synced to iCloud.
Shit, the only place I even plug my phone into now is my car because I was too dumb to wait a few months for the refresh that came with wireless CarPlay.
I use MagSafe at home for all of my charging, and airdrop/airplay for pretty much everything else that isn’t synced to iCloud.
Get yourself a wired to wireless CarPlay adapter.
I’ve thought about it. I haven’t decided how long I’m keeping this car though. The practical mind in me says keep it until the wheels fall off.
The enthusiast in me really wants a dark horse Mustang though lol.
They are like $60 though
And wired CarPlay works for me. Wireless would be nice but it’s not a necessity for me, especially given that that dongle would be useless to me if I do change cars here soon anyway.
I’ve looked around at the wireless CarPlay adapters, the consensus seems to be that to get one without any significant latency and operates as close to native wireless CarPlay, it’s gonna be in the $1-200 range too. That’s a decent amount for something I might only use for a few months.
It’s not that slow, how’d you think I transferred stuff off a CompactFlash card with raw files off my DSLR before USB 3.0? I’d regularly dump several GBs worth of files out after a shoot. It’d take a few minutes but it’s not the end of the world.
USB 2 can transfer 1 gigabyte in about 20 seconds
Are they really this spiteful? Wow
So, how do you sell this to a regular user? We’re probably getting new phones in this round and I want the Pro but still trying to sell that choice. My kid’s Mom has never used the data connector so how can I sell her on that as one of the features she wants?
Note on our weird situation but we have two teens and our pattern is to buy new, and give our 2-4 year old phones to the kids. For this to work, we really need to have identical phone models
I feel like not many people actually use the data port on their phones anymore, I know I haven’t used my android USB port for anything other than fast charging for I feel like 10 years. Do you even use the data connector on your phone?
I use it. I plug my phone into a dock and use it in desktop mode on occasion. I actually have an old phone running an FTP server with an external hard drive connected.
Guess you’ll have to change bubble colors.
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