You can argue over what a reasonable EOL is, but all hardware is going to EOL at some point, and at that point, it isn’t going to keep getting updates.
Throw enough money at a vendor, and I’m sure that you can get extended support contracts that will keep it going for however long people are willing to keep chucking money at a vendor – some businesses pay for support on truly ancient hardware – but this is a consumer broadband router. It’s unlikely to make a lot of sense to do so on this – the hardware isn’t worth much, nor is it going to be terribly expensive to replace, and especially if you’re using the wireless functionality, you probably want support for newer WiFi standards anyway that updated hardware will bring.
I do think that there’s maybe a good argument that EOLing hardware should be handled in a better way. Like, maybe hardware should ship with an EOL sticker, so that someone can glance at hardware and see if it’s “expired”. Or maybe network hardware should have some sort of way of reporting EOL in response to a network query, so that someone can audit a network for EOLed hardware.
Definitely don’t this in the past (Linksys WRT54G!) but let’s be honest, the kind of people running 10yo Dlink routers aren’t going to flash new firmware, let alone OpenWRT or even know to look for it. It would have to come that way from the factory. And even then I doubt most people even do regular updates, sadly.
Counter point: so it should automatically update every night when updates are available, and should have or migrate to an open standard at mfg EoL or from the factory.
If I can flash OpenWRT on to an older router then it becomes useful again.
well, only if it has more than 4 MB storage, 8 MB RAM. I’m practically swimming in older routers that can’t even pass that requirement, and even today the cheaper, that is, more affordable options are still near that for some fucking reason.
Something this old is going to be power inefficient compared to newer stuff, and simply not perform as well.
I would know, I just booted up a 10 year old consumer router last night, because the current one died. It’ll be OK for a few days until I can get a replacement. Boy, is this thing slow.
e-waste? a lot of networks dont need anywhere near gigabit. Especially because at a lot of places around the world even the ISP can’t provide that bandwidth for internet, but this applies to internal networks too. in a lot of cases a 100 mbps capable managed switch (which a router can be, even if with limitations) is enough
I think there should be a handoff procedure, or whatever you want to call it.
As EOL approaches, work with whatever open router OS maker is available (currently OpenWRT) to make sure it’s supported, and configs migrate over nicely. Then drop one last update, designed to do a full OS replacement.
EoL of anything should mean open source code. You don’t want to open source your code? Then you must keep servicing your products and must keep your servers up
EU is cooking something with EU Directive on Liability for Defective Products. I’ve read only part of it, but basically companies are liable for bugs in software unless they opensource it.
I can still use a 2003 AMD Opteron with the newest builds of Linux. It’s an open standard. As long as the hardware still physically works. The only reason these pieces of hardware are EOL is because they chose to lock them down.
When the users are in control of the software running on their devices then “EOL” is dependent the user community’s willingness to work on it themselves.
When we’re they last sold though, eol 8 years after last up for sale is fine, but if they were still on sale up to last month that is a different issue.
I mean, some of those EOLed nearly a decade ago.
You can argue over what a reasonable EOL is, but all hardware is going to EOL at some point, and at that point, it isn’t going to keep getting updates.
Throw enough money at a vendor, and I’m sure that you can get extended support contracts that will keep it going for however long people are willing to keep chucking money at a vendor – some businesses pay for support on truly ancient hardware – but this is a consumer broadband router. It’s unlikely to make a lot of sense to do so on this – the hardware isn’t worth much, nor is it going to be terribly expensive to replace, and especially if you’re using the wireless functionality, you probably want support for newer WiFi standards anyway that updated hardware will bring.
I do think that there’s maybe a good argument that EOLing hardware should be handled in a better way. Like, maybe hardware should ship with an EOL sticker, so that someone can glance at hardware and see if it’s “expired”. Or maybe network hardware should have some sort of way of reporting EOL in response to a network query, so that someone can audit a network for EOLed hardware.
But EOLing hardware is gonna happen.
Both of these are solved by one thing: open platforms. If I can flash OpenWRT on to an older router then it becomes useful again.
Bingo.
Either support the device until the heat death of the universe, or provide consumers with the access to maintain it themselves.
But neither of those help corporations make them all the money. So we need regulation to force them to.
Regulation? I think you mean “guillotines”…
Regulation guillotines maybe?
my guillotine is named regulation
Definitely don’t this in the past (Linksys WRT54G!) but let’s be honest, the kind of people running 10yo Dlink routers aren’t going to flash new firmware, let alone OpenWRT or even know to look for it. It would have to come that way from the factory. And even then I doubt most people even do regular updates, sadly.
Counter point: so it should automatically update every night when updates are available, and should have or migrate to an open standard at mfg EoL or from the factory.
It’s still the mfg fault, full stop.
well, only if it has more than 4 MB storage, 8 MB RAM. I’m practically swimming in older routers that can’t even pass that requirement, and even today the cheaper, that is, more affordable options are still near that for some fucking reason.
This is the correct reaction to old home equipment.
Right?
Something this old is going to be power inefficient compared to newer stuff, and simply not perform as well.
I would know, I just booted up a 10 year old consumer router last night, because the current one died. It’ll be OK for a few days until I can get a replacement. Boy, is this thing slow.
I have a netgear router that isn’t even that old and it doesn’t have gigabit ports.
even though I was able to throw openwrt on there to mess around with it’s still e-waste
e-waste? a lot of networks dont need anywhere near gigabit. Especially because at a lot of places around the world even the ISP can’t provide that bandwidth for internet, but this applies to internal networks too. in a lot of cases a 100 mbps capable managed switch (which a router can be, even if with limitations) is enough
I think there should be a handoff procedure, or whatever you want to call it.
As EOL approaches, work with whatever open router OS maker is available (currently OpenWRT) to make sure it’s supported, and configs migrate over nicely. Then drop one last update, designed to do a full OS replacement.
Boom, handoff complete.
I’d support a regulation that defines either an expiration date or commitment to open source at the time the hardware is sold.
EoL of anything should mean open source code. You don’t want to open source your code? Then you must keep servicing your products and must keep your servers up
EU is cooking something with EU Directive on Liability for Defective Products. I’ve read only part of it, but basically companies are liable for bugs in software unless they opensource it.
I can still use a 2003 AMD Opteron with the newest builds of Linux. It’s an open standard. As long as the hardware still physically works. The only reason these pieces of hardware are EOL is because they chose to lock them down.
When the users are in control of the software running on their devices then “EOL” is dependent the user community’s willingness to work on it themselves.
The ones with EOL 2015, fair play. But May 2024 isn’t all that long ago.
Edit: Looks like those were launched in early 2015. I guess requesting users to update devices after 8+ years might not be too far fetched.
Source: https://www.dlink.com/rs/sr/press-centre/press-releases/2015/february/04/unified_services_router_dsr_150n
When we’re they last sold though, eol 8 years after last up for sale is fine, but if they were still on sale up to last month that is a different issue.