Many on the Latte Left facilitated this new era of fascist censorship. Remember when people didn’t care that folks who were accurately assessing the situation between Ukraine and Russia were targeted and silenced?

  • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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    1 year ago

    Perhaps so, but the fact is that Putin has stated preconditions for negotiations that Ukraine finds unacceptable. It’s not up to me, or anybody in the U.S. government to decide, unless the Ukranian government is a group of puppets without agency. It seems that they are also suspicious of whether he would abide by the terms of a deal, considering the track record of reneging on the past security guarantee, the rhetoric of conquest among his circle, as well as attempting no diplomatic paths to resolve those issues.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      unless the Ukranian government is a group of puppets without agency

      You mean the government installed by a Western coup and is being propped up by unlimited aid and resources? Hmmm…

      • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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        1 year ago

        I’ve heard that accusation plenty, and believed it until I looked into it. Ukrainians in large numbers were willing to fight and die for a movement which wasn’t a coup until the president fled to Russia. They’re not puppets with no agency who can be ordered around from Washington or Brussels. As such, the popular support the government received, and still does, tends to support the idea that it’s not just a Western puppet.

        And, even if it was all true, does it not speak strongly against Putin’s willingness to negotiate? He could have tried diplomacy before, but if he chose invasion because he saw Ukraine/NATO as unreliable parties, why would that change now?

          • NovaPrime@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Again though, it’s disingenuous to say he tried diplomacy when his demands all infringed on a sovereign nation’s ability to self govern and determine. And don’t give me the NATO bullshit line. Russia was already bordered by other NATO nations. And frankly even if it was not, he doesnt get to decide who they can form deals and relationships with. Theyre no longer a USSR vassal state, no matter how much he’d like them to be. This was a land grab for resources, strategic access, and one old fucks personal delusions of grandeur.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Their “self governance” was disrupted by a coup with support from the West. The actually elected democratic government was dissolved, and the Russian ethnic minority was against this.

              As for self determination, why don’t ethnically Russian people in Crimea or the Donbass region get to have self determination? The majority sure seem to hate the new government and support Russia.

              So! Russia wants territory and Ukraine wants territory. A reasonable compromise would be UN monitored referendums on the question for the people living in those places, with both sides agreeing to respect democratic decision making.

              Compromise is possible. Give peace a chance.

              • NovaPrime@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Not going to keep repeating myself. See my response above. TL;DR: you’re presenting a false equivalence and the self-determination argument on the Russian side is tainted by their 2014 invasion and the meddling they’ve done since then to build this so called “native” ethnic Russian coalition.

                As for giving peace a chance, I agree with you there. Russia should pull all of their troops from all Ukranian regions and stop attacking its neighbor. It’s the aggressor. Ukranians have zero reason to negotiate peace with a hostile foreign invader.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Ukranians have zero reason to negotiate peace with a hostile foreign invader.

                  They might want to avoid becoming another forever war like Iraq or Afghanistan. Avoiding more bloodshed is, itself, a good reason.

                  There’s a reason there were negotiations before the US put a stop to it.

                  I think you’re being overly moralist and not really looking at this materially.