I guess that means it’s dead, as there’s no way a corporation would pay millions to acquire a competitor just to continue developing a free alternative to their own product
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Fuck me. I switched to owncloud yesterday because I can’t stand nextcloud anymore.
Owncloud feels lighter, faster, and just works.
Whhhhhhyyyyyy ?
I wouldn’t assume that they’ll kill it. It’s entirely possible that they’ll keep moving forward as-is. Just wait and see.
Lol I envy your optimism.
It’s entirely possible that they’ll shut it down. I’m just saying…chill the fuck out, wait and see what happens before we all start crying.
Considering that any switch to a new platform takes a lot of effort to carry over everything correctly, people are in the right to worry about the future of a product that has an uncertain future.
Worst case, it gets forked again.
How has ownCloud development compared to NextCloud since the split?
Since a couple years ago they abandoned the php version (=nextcloud) and they are in the process of a complete rewrite in go, which that means is faster and uses less resources but all existing plugins need to be rewritten too, and given the small user base nobody is going to do that.
PHP will outlive us all.
And Java will still be active long after the heat-death of the universe
If python is still around why not?
Just to support all the COBOL.
Ooh interesting, never knew they started a rewrite!
The reports of poor performance with the PHP version was one of the things that pushed me towards using Syncthing instead when I was looking for a solution to view my documents and files from various devices
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they call it “owncloud infinite scale” but for some reason they don’t clearly specify that it’s designed for performance, and it has nothing to do with the previous version. They even start the introduction page with this:
Welcome to oCIS, the modern file-sync and share platform, which is based on our knowledge and experience with the PHP based ownCloud server.
If you read that a platform is based on their knowledge and experience with PHP, would you guess that they’re talking about a complete rewrite in go?
Badly. Nextcloud is a very active project with many plugins and integrations. You can even integrate a mail system and AI image tagging, chat and video calls.
Owncloud focussed more on the enterprise sector and less on fancy features. Definitely the more stable product (but not only in the positive sense).
I tried NC recently (like 2 weeks ago) and fuck me it’s an awful piece of shit, full-stop. It broke completely 3x during initial setup, needing a container wipe and beginning from scratch each time, then I was following the official docs and the ‘status / security’ page of the admin area where it told me to do something that had no gui (so they are 100% aware anyone new has to do this but cba to throw it a fucking web page) and if you edit the config file on the machine directly, even if you stop the container, it breaks permissions (???) so you have to download it from your server, edit, and re-upload it (somehow doesn’t break permissions???). This took an hour to figure out, the doc was useless.
Then you get to the plug-in page and fuck me could this be any worse. Pick one fucking category each, guys, I don’t need to see 40% of the same available plug-ins on almost every fucking category, jesus fucking christ. Then you dive into these things and you realize how surface-level they are - a task/to-do list should have a fucking import/export function, as well as REPEATING OPTIONS fuck me sideways are you seriously taking the piss. You’ll be setting up other plug-ins and they don’t actually function at all even though they have been verified to work with your version (medical plug in, for example) and it just keeps crumbling around you the further you go. Shit, even the weather widget on the ‘home page’ will show C instead of F when you select a country during account setup that uses F, with NO OBVIOUS WAY TO CHANGE THAT. The fix? Go through your region options, pick a different country, then back to your actual. Does NOBODY EVEN TEST THIS SHIT? How are they on version SIX of their ‘hub’?! This screams alpha, not multiple-stable-releases!
Gahhhhh, fuck!
/rant
Nice rant ;)
I did never have any problems with installing it, but once or twice with upgrading. And I agree with you that the setup is complex with all the possible options and getting it to run well takes some time.
When it comes to the apps, Nextcloud is a very open system. Its easy to publish an app, and the quality of the apps varies. Some apps are abandoned and don’t work in recent versions. Personally, I would recommend to keep the number of apps low for stability and security reasons.
The update process is absolutely horrible, especially with containers.
I seriously cannot understand how this hasn’t been fixed ages ago. Upgrading is kind of important and nextcloud isn’t doing that much weird stuff that it didn’t upgrade itself.
I agree. I even had a documentation how to upgrade my instance since I keep on breaking it every time.
That was the case for me. I had a nextcloud setup with a few productivity apps (calendar, contacts, notes, some 3rd party). In one case I forgot to deactivate apps before update and it crashed. In another case I deactivated it first to find out they are partially not usable anymore after update.
Now I try it with one container app for one use case (seafile, baikal etc.).
I’ve been self-hosting since before docker and containers were a thing, and even though Nextcloud kinda pushes their container images these days, I still refuse to use them, and use the community archive releases or web installer when reconfiguring my system or setting up a new system to migrate to. Maybe it’s just Nextcloud and the other software I use, or maybe it’s just that I’m not really trying to build scalable server infrastructure with a lot of users, but I generally find that docker causes more problems than it solves, and it does my head in when I see projects that recommend containers as the primary suggested install method.
Totally agree with your assessment of the plugins/apps systems. Feels like you need to stick to official “apps” and hope they don’t get abandoned to have anything close to a good experience because even minor updates can break all the 3rd party apps because of a compatibility check, where you end up waiting for the app developer to release an “update” that only changes the version compatibility number.
Part of the problem is you don’t understand how containers work. If you need to do a ‘container wipe’ and starting from scratch, you’re doing it wrong.
I’ve been running nextcloud in k8s for years and running a few occ upgrade commands after an upgrade is annoying but not the end of the world.
Deleting a container and starting again from scratch = wipe
Yeah, exactly. If you’re starting over from scratch constantly you’re doing something wrong. Check out https://docs.docker.com/storage/ for a few options on how you should be managing your storage.
This is the only container I’ve had anywhere near the amount of trouble with, others it’s just pulling a new image or something. I’ve been doing docker for like 5 years now, NC was just awful. Shouldn’t need to nuke anything while you’re still in the initial service setup phase…
Has anything actually happened in ownClouds development?
The last I saw of them was FOSDEM a few years back, where NextCloud were handing out whitepapers and showing off their new Hub, chat, VoIP stack, group sharing system, and more. And ownCloud were sat somewhat opposite with two people and a screen showing a screenshot of a default ownCloud install, along with a big sign hanging from the ceiling saying “Join the winning team.”
What happened to owncloud dev? I wish it would be the same at nextcloud! They fully get rid of PHP. Its called OCIS and is a single binary or docker container.
OCIS is in early stage and lacks some features, but it is really easy to install and works flawlessly on low resources.
It’s great to hear that they’re not just giving up. And it’s also definitely good to hear that they’re not sticking with PHP either, that language is a true bane to modern hosting - and especially Kubernetes.
I’ll remain cautiously optimistic that they’ll be able to stay relevant, and not go hard in again on cutting away core functionality in the name of enterprise offerings - what caused the NextCloud split in the first place.
Actually I don’t even have cal-, or webdav activated. But for my usecase, simple cloud, it works really promising.
I’ll just stick with Nextcloud
What is a good selfhosted cloud service?
Nextcloud?
SFTP.
Personally I think nextcloud is bloated with too many extra things. I’ve been using Seafile for 5+ years and it’s been great.
If you just want file storage Seafile. Idk about all the other crap it can do but id imagine there are plenty of good options for each one. Immich is great if your mostly concerned about pictures/videos for example
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well fuck. now i need to move my stuff off my own owncloud instace.
Did you not switch to Nextcloud a while back?
nop, i’m using owncloud infinity scale, the go version
You need to keep up that was so last year. The new hottnes is switching back to owncloud because it is so light weight. But now i am guessing the new new hotness is switch from owncloud to Nextcloud.
Why? They didn’t say they’re shutting the open source project down.
You’ll find a lot of pessimistic people here because there are few unicorns when a commercial company buying an open source project didn’t go badly for the open source people. Most of the time after a sell-out the projects ends up under highly restrictive licensing, features behind paywalls, and many other problems making it a shadow of its former self.
The most notable recent examples I can think of is IBM buys Red Hat buys CentOS, and that ended with forks as AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux. Oracle buys MySQL ended up forked as MariaDB. Businesses love to push their commercial offerings on open source products, and it’s not always in the form of plain old support agreements (like the people behind AlmaLinux). Often (this is common especially in databases) they’ll tax features like SSO, backups, or literally simple the privilege of having stable software. Projects like CentOS and VyOS don’t have stable OSS versions, and soooo many databases will put LDAP/Kerberos behind the commercial product, charging monthly or yearly operating costs.
Even GitHub (which to be clear was closed source to begin with, but is a haven for F/OSS so I’ll give it an honorable mention here) started showing Microsoft-isms after M$ bought the platform.
Fair, but I would point out that OwnCloud kinda already went that direction years ago. There’s already a very limited free version and a fully featured enterprise version. So it’s not like we’re losing something that the community built here.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web SSO Single Sign-On k8s Kubernetes container management package nginx Popular HTTP server
3 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 4 acronyms.
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