Beeper reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users::The push to bring iMessage to Android users today adds a new contender. A startup called Beeper, which had been working on a multi-platform messaging

  • gregorum@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    i had no idea that having green chat bubbles upset people so much.

    • pizza_the_hutt@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      The issue isn’t so much the message color. It’s the ability to send videos that aren’t potato quality and other media.

          • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            They’re doing the GSMA standard and nothing else. I think they refuse to play ball with any standard Google controls either directly or indirectly.

              • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                It’s just smart business. Why give up any level of control of anything to a direct competitor when you don’t have to?

                • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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                  11 months ago

                  Especially Google, and especially the crappy implementation of RCS.

                  I see posts every day of people having issues. Messages not sent, not received, etc.

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          They’re not doing encryption, because Google is using their own.

          RCS is too little, too late. It sucks. I refuse to ever use it.

      • gregorum@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        oh, can’t android users receive high-quality videos and photos? after 16 years of smartphones, you’d think they’d have that figured out…

        • mcqtom@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Yeah the whole reason Apple won’t allow it is because they expect you to conclude exactly this.

        • Mountaineer@aussie.zone
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          11 months ago

          It’s not the android side that’s failing, it’s Apples refusal to implement anything other than SMS for cross ecosystem compatibility.

          • JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            It’s also why third party messaging apps like Whatsapp are thriving, much to the consternation of every person on the network. I used to be able to pick up the phone and call or message anyone. Now I need to check compatibility first. Wtf apple.

          • mike805@fosstodon.org
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            11 months ago

            @Mountaineer @gregorum Apple is going to implement RCS, the EU put pressure on them.

            However I am surprised that Beeper was able to do this in software. With everyone else using an Apple device as a proxy, I figured the protocol required a magic handshake from the TPM chip in an Apple device. That would be easy to do.

            • Mountaineer@aussie.zone
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              11 months ago

              There’s some gotchas in Apples statement:

              They have promised to implement “RCS Universal Profile”
              This means the bare minimum, not the advanced features implemented by Google and Samsung etc.
              An example of a missing feature from Universal Profile is end to end encryption.

              They also said: “This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users.”
              The implication of this is that it won’t be in the iMessage app, it will be in a separate but official app, siloing your Android friends from your iPhone friends.

              When this comes out, every European is going to shrug and keep using Whatsapp.

              • mike805@fosstodon.org
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                11 months ago

                @Mountaineer Encryption needs to be added to the standard, and then Apple will be expected to implement it. Hopefully the EU knocks some heads together and makes this happen.

                WhatsApp is owned by Facebook and has ads, which is two good reasons not to use it. Europeans are just as “stuck with a bad standard” as Americans are here.

                I use RCS quite a bit and like it. Although nothing on a phone should be regarded as truly secure.

              • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                The implication of this is that it won’t be in the iMessage app, it will be in a separate but official app, siloing your Android friends from your iPhone friends.

                Lol wut

                SMS and iMessage both work via the same Messages app. All they’ll do is add RCS functionality to the Messages app, and iPhone users will continue using the same app they’ve always used.

              • creed10@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                what? that’s not the implication at all. it’ll work just like SMS does now. same app, just RCS instead of SMS

                • Mountaineer@aussie.zone
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                  11 months ago

                  it’ll work just like SMS does now

                  I agree with this part of your statement 100%.
                  It will work POORLY.

                  Whether it’s in the same app or simply a different colour like SMS is currently, it’ll be a half assed implementation, designed to segregate your iphone and android friends.

                  Got an existing iphone group chat? Bet you can’t add an RCS participant to it.
                  Create a new RCS group chat so you can include everyone? Bet it’s missing features that you’d get in imessage.
                  Receive a high resolution video from a friend via imessage? Forward that to another friend via RCS and they’ll receive 5 blurry pixels.

                  And throughout all of this, apple will blame the RCS protocol and say “We’re actively working with GSMA to improve RCS”.

                  No one trusts apple for the very simple reason that they have a habit of saying the quiet part out loud: Tim Cook Says ‘Buy Your Mom An iPhone’

                  • creed10@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    unfortunately you’re right. it’ll be marginally better, sure, but I have zero doubt the “green bubble” is just going to be a different color. better than nothing I guess

            • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              RCS is too liitle, too late. It sucks. People have issues with it today… It’s less reliable than SMS, and it’s E2EE is problematic.

              Fortunately much of the world has moved away from SMS already, so those folks aren’t coming back. I try real hard to get people away from it.

              • mike805@fosstodon.org
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                11 months ago

                @BearOfaTime I have RCS and use it. It works fine. I have not noticed significant reliability problems, using Google’s servers. If there are problems it’s likely the carrier’s garbage implementation.

                There is no standard here in the USA except SMS.

                • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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                  11 months ago

                  It works fine, for you. When it works is irrelevant. When it doesn’t is what matters.

                  Go to reddit look for RCS problem posts. It’s terrible.

          • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Even worse, I can send high quality images and video from android to iPhone if they’re both on Verizon. When the iPhone sends it back, it’s trashed.

            That said, SMS/MMS suck. SMS has a known, published loss of messages at about 12%. What the hell?

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          iOS can’t send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It’s a choice made by Apple.

          I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.

          Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn’t seem to have an MMS size limit.

        • yeehaw@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          You need to think of iMessage as Google messages, Whatsapp, telegram, signal, etc. Except this is only installed on iPhones and they want everyone to know it. It’s arrogant and stupid. The app could just be released for Android and it would be no different than the others I mentioned.

          It’s gatekeeping.

        • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          Android to Android, sure.

          But Apple and Google refuse to play nicely with each other, so Android to Iphone or Iphone to Android both suck.

          It’s not a lack of capability, it’s the refusal to implement it to try and force users to pick a side.

          • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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            11 months ago

            But Apple and Google refuse to play nicely with each other, so Android to Iphone or Iphone to Android both suck.

            Yeah this is a gross mischaracterization of the situation.

            1. Google is more than happy to “play nicely” with Apple. They’re the ones who convinced Apple to adopt RCS. Apple is the one holding out.

            2. They totally do “play nicely” on literally every messenger app in existence except iMessage, which is the only SMS app you’re allowed to use on iOS. This is not any sort of hardware or software limitation, this is purely greed from Apple to control their users and create a walled garden, to the detriment of their own customers.

            This entire shitty situation is 100% on Apple and their users.

            • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              To be fair, Google’s messaging plans and implementations have been all over the place for a decade. Apple still should have been more proactive. They promised iMessage would come to Android until they realized how much of a moat it became for their business.

              • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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                11 months ago

                Apple has no obligation to use any of Google’s or Google’s preferred communication standards. They can open up the iMessage protocol or they can use literally any other open standards (like Signal’s).

            • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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              11 months ago

              I don’t really care which of them is responsible for it not working decently, that’s why I didn’t point the finger at one in particular.

              Point is, it’s between these two companies to agree on a solution that works for both of them and actually implement it. Yet after all this time, they still haven’t to the detriment of consumers globally.

              I’ll believe the IOS RCS implementation when it’s actually released. Promises from corporations are worthless.

              • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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                11 months ago

                that’s why I didn’t point the finger at one in particular.

                No you pointed the finger at both of them, which is why I corrected you.

                Point is, it’s between these two companies to agree on a solution that works for both of them and actually implement it.

                Point is you can’t have an agreement when the other party won’t even entertain a conversation, nor do they want to come to an agreement.

            • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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              11 months ago

              If you’re talking about RCS, androids newer native messaging system, no apple has not implemented that yet.

              There has always been dozens of messaging apps users can use, including Google Chat, but they are all seprate apps that both you and the recipient have to choose to install and use. That’s the main problem.

              The goal is to have the native messaging apps on both platforms be able to speak to each other with the same quality right out of the box, just as they can within the same platform right now (apple to apple, and android to android).

        • creed10@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          you can when it’s android to android. as soon as an iphone is in play, the iphone immediately decreases the quality, even though the MMS standard allows for attachments up to 100MB in size

        • sanguine_artichoke@midwest.social
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          11 months ago

          Android uses RCS now, a higher quality and more feature rich standard than SMS. However… Apple hasn’t added it to iOS, so it doesn’t work to send to iPhones and they receive bog-standard SMS from Android devices.

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          iOS can’t send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It’s a choice made by Apple.

          I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.

          Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn’t seem to have an MMS size limit.

    • nolannice@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I think they’re hated because they’re synonymous with broken group chats and low res photos. Hopefully EU forcing rss adoption fixes these instead of having to download an app to ‘fit in’.

      • gregorum@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        why should the EU have anything to do with who “fits in”? maybe i misunderstood what you’re saying here…

        • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          EU implements legislation forcing Android + Apple to use standards that actually work properly with each other. (they usually spearhead this type of change)

          People using android no longer break group chats or have terrible sent image/video quality when messaging Iphone users.

          With this ammunition gone, teens stop using it to attack each other for their familys (lack of) income. Ie those kids ‘fit in’ better.

          • gregorum@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Oh, OK. I did misunderstand what was being said. Thank you for clarifying.

          • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            I’d say it’s people using Apple that break group chats, since Apple doesn’t utilize SMS/MMS correctly.

            Not Android’s fault that Apple butchers MMS quality.

            Though carriers have some culpability here, even if a carrier allowed higher quality MMS (Verizon), iPhone still wouldn’t use that capability, while Android can if configured to do so.

            • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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              11 months ago

              Thats a fair argument; though in this context it’s more about how the teens causing social issues perceive it.

              It’s not the Iphone users getting picked on in schools.

    • Bobby Turkalino@lemmy.yachts
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      11 months ago

      In the US, every millenial is a communist until a green bubble shows up in the group chat… then the poverty jokes commence

    • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      It’s all the other features in iMessage that android users “ruin” in group chats. Things like read receipts, typing indicators, reactions, animated/spoiler text messages, sending media in full quality, etc… A single android user is enough to downgrade an entire group chat, so apple users tend to be a little bit resentful.

      It’d be a little bit like if one person on a Discord server disabled all the fun parts of Discord, and it killed the functionality for everyone on that server. Now nobody in the server can add fun little reactions to messages, or start threads, or send embedded gifs. All because that one person decided they didn’t like it.

      • PobrePerformer@lemmy.pt
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        11 months ago

        All because that one person decided they didn’t like it.

        More like “all because Discord decided to remove those things from anyone not using Windows”

        Nothing in this scenario is in the users hands, it’s all Apple, what any given user likes or want makes no difference.

        • FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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          11 months ago

          Apple, Google, and Microsoft commit antitrust violations too fast and numerous for the legal systems to keep up.

          That and they spy on consumers for the US government so that gives them free passes at a lot of things.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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      11 months ago

      I’m absolutely blown away by the number of people who actually think this is about bubble colors…