• Lmaydev@programming.dev
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    11 months ago

    That is a false equivalency.

    The trains cost money to run so you are using resources you haven’t paid for.

    Pirating takes away a possible purchase. You haven’t actually used any of their resources or cost them anything.

    If I wasn’t going to buy it anyway they haven’t lost anything.

    If you streamed it from their servers for free using an exploit that would be stealing, as you’ve actually cost them resources.

    • Shambles@beehaw.org
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      11 months ago

      I don’t get this logic at all. Piracy doesn’t take away a possible purchase. There is an assumption that the media downloaded was ever going to be paid for. In 100% of the cases where I downloaded pirated content, I was never going to pay for the product, even if it was available to me by other means. Further I cannot remove a sale from someone when I never possessed the money to pay for it anyway.

      I believe most people that pirate cannot afford to buy digital releases or pay for streaming services etc… (not all cases of course). In these situations nobody loses. The media companies didn’t lose anything because I was never going to buy it, and it wasn’t stolen because they still possess the media.

      Edit - I agree with you Lmaydev I replied to the wrong comment.

    • Chozo@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      The trains cost money to run so you are using resources you haven’t paid for.

      And media costs money to make.

      If I wasn’t going to buy it anyway they haven’t lost anything.

      If you weren’t going to buy it, why would you pirate it? That’s the thing, if you’re interested enough in a product to want it, then you taking it for free is a cost to the producer.

      If you streamed it from their servers for free using an exploit that would be stealing, as you’ve actually cost them resources.

      How do you think scene groups get their materials in the first place? They just find it on a flash drive on a park bench?

      More often than not, scene releases are gathered internally by rogue employees in the studio who took something and distributed it in a way that they were not authorized to do. The origins of any movie you pirate come from theft, full stop.

      • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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        11 months ago

        And media costs money to make.

        But not to copy, which is what you are asserting is being “stolen”. No one is claiming that turnstile jumpers are taking away money from train manufacturers. You’re having to mix analogies, because copying something isn’t theft.

        • Chozo@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          I feel like you’re being intentionally obtuse. The point is that in both examples, somebody is exploiting somebody else’s labor without paying.

          • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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            11 months ago

            There is no labor in making digital copies.

            You are trying to blur the line between the media/art/music/film, etc, and the reproductions of it.

            Artists do deserve to be paid for their work, but artists do not deserve to maintain ownership over the already-sold assets, nor whatever happens to those assets afterwards (like copies made). If you want to say they should retain commercial rights for reproduction of it, sure, but resell of the originally-sold work (e.g. the mp3 file), and non-commercial reproductions from that sold work? Nah.

            They didn’t put in labor towards that. To say they did expands “labor” far beyond any reasonable definition.

            • Chozo@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              You’re trying to blur the line between what is and what should be. We don’t live in an ideal world.

              • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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                11 months ago

                Yup, many people (like you) consider copyright morally okay, and many people (like me) consider copyright infringement morally okay.

                Not an ideal world for either of us, I guess.

      • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        The origins of any movie you pirate come from theft, full stop.

        Rips do exist, ya know?

        • Chozo@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          And physical media’s never stolen, right?

          The data to validate this is scarce, but I’d wager that most rips come from stolen physical media. I don’t think there’s too many people out there going “I just paid $20 of my hard-earned money for this Blu-ray, so now I’m going to give it away to strangers for free”. The whole “paying for something” thing is kinda antithetical to piracy in the first place. But again, there’s no real way to quantify this.

          • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            So you just dmit that you assume everything is stolen. That’s motivated reasoning, buddy.

              • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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                11 months ago

                We’re literally talking about piracy, so yes lmao

                So, according to you, piracy is stealing, because it has to be stolen at some point. And the reason that it must be stolen is because it is connected to piracy.

                Don’t act surprised if you’re downvoted, if you present your circular logic this plainly.

                • Chozo@kbin.social
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                  11 months ago

                  So, according to you, piracy is stealing, because it has to be stolen at some point.

                  No, I never said anything of the sort. Piracy is stealing because you are taking something without paying the cost for it.

                  Don’t act surprised if you’re downvoted, if you present your circular logic this plainly.

                  I don’t care about downvotes from pirates with a Robin Hood complex. I’m on Kbin and most of them don’t sync to my instance, anyway.

                  • Prunebutt@feddit.de
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                    11 months ago

                    When I steal a shoe, the shoe can’t besold anymore, because I have it. If I pirate a game, is there one less copy that steam can sell?

                    Piracy is categorically something else than stealing. Have you even read the original post?

                    Edit: If you really follow your logic strand, you would have to reach the conclusion that Sony stole content from their users.

                    Edit2:

                    No, I never said anything of the sort.

                    This u?

                    The origins of any movie you pirate come from theft, full stop.

      • Zworf@beehaw.org
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        11 months ago

        The origins of any movie you pirate come from theft, full stop.

        The origins of most of all western countries’ wealth comes from theft, full stop.

        More often than not, scene releases are gathered internally by rogue employees in the studio who took something and distributed it in a way that they were not authorized to do.

        That’s only the case for pre-Bluray release content. Most of it was just captured from rips, Amazon Prime or Netflix.