I know there are other ways of accomplishing that, but this might be a convenient way of doing it. I’m wondering though if Reddit is still reverting these changes?
Let’s pretend for a moment that we know that Reddit has any sort of decent versioning system, and that it keeps the old versions of your comments alongside the newer ones, and that it’s feeding the LLM with the old version. (Does it? I have my doubts, given that Reddit Inc. isn’t exactly competent.)
Even then, I think that it’s sensible to use this tool, to scorch the earth and discourage other human users from adding their own content to that platform. It still means less data for Google to say “it’s a bunch of users, who cares about the intellectual property of those filthy things? Their data is now my data. Feed it
to the wolvesto Gemini”.Let’s pretend for a moment that we know that Reddit has any sort of decent versioning system, and that it keeps the old versions of your comments alongside the newer ones, and that it’s feeding the LLM with the old version. (Does it? I have my doubts, given that Reddit Inc. isn’t exactly competent.)
They almost certainly do, if only because of the practicalities of adding a new comment, then having that be fetched in place of the old one, compared to making and propagating an edit across all their databases. With exceptions, it’d be a bit easier to implement it as an additional comment, and increment a version number that you fetch the latest version of, rather than needing to scan through the entire database to make changes.
It would also help with any administration/moderation tasks if they could see whether people posted rule-breaking content and then tried to hide it behind edits.
That said, one of the many Spez controversies did show that they are capable of making actual edits on the back end if they wished.
They almost certainly do, if only because of the practicalities of adding a new comment
If this is true, it shifts the problem from “not having it” to “not knowing which version should be used” (to train the LLM).
They could feed it the unedited versions and call it a day, but a lot of times people edit their content to correct it or add further info, specially for “meatier” content (like tutorials). So there’s still some value on the edits, and I believe that Google will be at least tempted to use them.
If that’s correct, editing it with nonsense will lower the value of edited comments for the sake of LLM training. It should have an impact, just not as big as if they kept no version system.
It would also help with any administration/moderation tasks if they could see whether people posted rule-breaking content and then tried to hide it behind edits.
I know from experience (I’m a former Reddit janny) that moderators can’t see earlier versions of the content, only the last one. The admins might though.
That said, one of the many Spez controversies did show that they are capable of making actual edits on the back end if they wished.
The one from TD, right?
- spez: “let them babble their violent rhetoric. Freeze peaches!”
- also spez: “nooo they’re casting me on a bad light. I’m going to edit it!”
Wouldn’t be hard to scan a user and say:
- they existed for 5 years.
- they made something like 5 comments a day. They edit 1 or 2 comments a month.
- then randomly on March 7th 2024 they edited 100% of all comments across all subs.
- use comment version March 6th 2024
It would.
First you’d need to notice the problem. Does Google even realise that some people want to edit their Reddit content to boycott LLM training?
Let’s say that Google did it. Then it’d need to come up with a good (generalisable, low amount of false positives, low amount of false negatives) set of rules to sort those out. And while coming up with “random” rules is easy, good ones take testing, trial and error, and time.
But let’s say that Google still does it. Now it’s retrieving and processing a lot more info from the database than just the content and its context, but also account age, when the piece of content was submitted, when it was edited.
So doing it still increases the costs associated with the corpus, making it less desirable.
Huh? Reddit has all of this plus changes in their own DBs. Google has nothing to do with this, it’s pre handover.
I’m highlighting that having the data is not enough, if you don’t find a good way to use the data to sort the trash out. Google will need to do it, not Reddit; Reddit is only handing the data over.
Is this clear now? If you’re still struggling to understand it, refer to the context provided by the comment chain, including your own comments.
I’m saying reddit will not ship a trashed deliverable. Guaranteed.
Reddit will have already preprocessed for this type of data damage. This is basic data engineering and trivial to do to find events in the data and understanding timeseries of events.
Google will be receiving data that is uncorrupted, because they’ll get data properly versioned to before the damaging event.
If a high edit event happens on March 7th, they’ll ship march 7th - 1d. Guaranteed.
Edit to be clear: you’re ignoring/not accepting the practice of noting high volume of edits per user as an event, and using that timestamped event as a signal of data validity.
It sounds like what’s needed here is a version of this tool that makes the edits slowly, at random intervals, over a period of time. And perhaps has the ability to randomize the text in each edit so that they’re all unusable garbage, but different unusable garbage (like the suggestion of taking ChatGPT output at really high temp that someone else made). Maybe it also only edits something like 25% of your total comment pool, and perhaps makes unnoticeably minor edits (add a space, remove a comma) to a whole bunch of other comments. Basically masking the poison by hiding it in a lot of noise?
Now you’re talkin .
Intra comment edit threshold would be fun to explore
Honestly, parsing through version history is actually something an LLM could handle. It might even make more sense of it than without. For example, if someone replies to a comment and then the parent is edited to say something different. No one will have to waste their time filtering anything.
They could use an LLM to parse through the version history of all those posts/comments, to use it to train another LLM with it. It sounds like a bad (and expensive, processing time-wise) idea, but it could be done.
EDIT: thinking further on this, it’s actually fairly doable. It’s generally a bad idea to feed the output of an LLM into another, but in this case you’re simply using it to pick one among multiple versions of a post/comment made by a human being.
It’s still worth to scorch the earth though, so other human users don’t bother with the platform.
Even if they had comment versioning, who’s gonna dig through the versions to figure out which are nonsense. Just use the overwrite tool several times and then wish them good luck.
I’m guessing, the AI? Seems like a job it’d be good at.
Last version of comment within 24 hours of it being posted initially. So, probably one line of code.
Let’s also pretend that reddit isn’t a cesspool of bots, marketing campaigns, foreign agents, incels, racists, Republicans, gun nuts, shit posters, trolls…the list goes on.
Is it even that valuable? It didn’t take long for that Microsoft bot to turn into Hitler, feeding reddit into an “AI” is like speed running Ultron.
It’s still somewhat valuable due to the size of the corpus (it’s huge) and because people used to share technical expertise there.
When you edit your comment all you’re doing is adding a “new” comment, the old comment is flagged to not show and the new comment shows in its place.
This achieves nothing.
Reddit was open source until relatively recently. According to the source code, editing comments does overwrite your data. Or at least it used to.
Keeping old data is expensive, and usually a waste of money.
It’s not a waste of money if you can sell it.
And text comments is rarely more than 1kb. They can provably fit more than 1 billion comments in a 1TB drive if they want, which is peanuts in terms of storage.
Relatively recently being 6 years ago.
Keeping old data is expensive, and usually a waste of money.
At the same time, text, which Reddit was exclusively, for a good long time, compresses really well. The entirety of Wikipedia goes from 10 TB to 100 GB when compressed, and if it’s just the article text alone, 22 GB.
That’s a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of data that they would have had to deal with when they started deciding to take on video and image hosting.
Text data is like practically 0 compared to all the rest of the data (i.e. images for instance).
I assure you that’s not the case anymore
Keeping old comments data is small and relatively cheap to store. I’m sure they’ve kept backups. Probably even yearly ones for the past 5 years. Storage for text really doesn’t take up much room. There’s over 4,500,000,000 words in the entirety of Wikipedia. You can download it all right now if you’d like. An offline copy of wiki is currently about 95GB. Probably half the size of your last CoD game update.
Yeah, do nothing because you wouldn’t take the risk it works.
I’m still pretty happy that I can change all my comments to quips from story of the eye or jaberwalky and I would encourage everyone to do the same. Seems like a good fuck around and find out situation at least. There will likely be other llms that won’t have an official relationship but will crawl reddit. The more we can jumble it up the better.
Reddit is almost certainly going to throw your old comments to them if you edit stuff. We’re pretty fucked. And if you think Lemmy is any different, guess again. We agreed to send our comments to everyone else in the fediverse, plenty of bad actors and a legal minefield allows LLMs to do what they want essentially. The good news is that LLMs are all crap, and people are slowly realising this
And if you think Lemmy is any different, guess again
Lemmy is different, in that the data is not being sold to anyone. Instead, the data is available to anyone.
It’s kind of like open source software. Nobody can buy it, cause it’s open and free to be used by anyone. Nobody profits off of it more than anyone else - nobody has an advantage over anyone else.
Open source levels the playing field by making useful code available to everyone. You can think of comments and posts on the Fediverse in the same way - nobody can buy that data, because it’s open and free to be used by anyone. Nobody profits off of it more than anyone else and nobody has an advantage over anyone else (after all, everyone has access to the same data).
The only problem is if you’re okay with your data being out there and available in this way… but if you’re not, you probably shouldn’t be on the internet at all.
If the post is creative then it’s automatically copyrighted in many countries. That doesn’t stop people collecting it and using it to train ML (yet).
Copyright has little to say in regards to training models - it’s the published output that matters.
LLMs are all crap, and people are slowly realising this
LLM’s have already changed the tech space more than anything else for the last 10 years at least. I get what you’re trying to say but that opinion will age like milk.
Edit: made wording clearer
LLMs are great for anything you’d trust to an 8 year old savant.
It’s great for getting quick snippets of code using languages and methods that have great documentation. I don’t think I’d trust it for real work though
I’ve been harping on about this for a while on the fediverse … private/closed/non-open spaces really ought to be thought about more. Fortunately, lemmy core devs are implementing local only and private communities (local only is already done IIRC).
Yes they introduce their own problems with discovery and gating etc. But now that the internet’s “you’re the product” stakes have gone beyond what could have been construed as a reasonably transaction, “my attention on an ad … for a service”, to “my mind’s products to be aggregated into an energy sucking job replacing AI … for a service” … well it’s time to normalise closing that door on opportunistic tech capitalists.
They’ll use old comments either way, using an up-to-date dataset means using a dataset already tainted by LLM-generated content. Training a model on its own output is not great.
Incidentally this also makes Lemmy data less valuable, most of Lemmy’s popularity came after the rise of LLMs so there’s no significant untainted data from before LLMs.
If one wanted to really screw the AI, I’d replace each post/comment with nonsense generated by ChatGPT itself on a higher-than-normal temperature setting. AI would be training on its own generated content, and out of context as well.
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Reddit will most likely feed these guys a copy of their DB from before the API switch ensuring an unfucked copy of data before people started messing with it.
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The only way to control your data, even on the fediverse is through DRM, the thing so many people hate, but it’s designed to ensure you control who uses your data and how. I know people say “well what about copyrights and licenses?” Tell that to people building LLMs in other jurisdictions that don’t care about those.
DRM always fails, and would fail especially bad in an open and free community which has the purpose of being open and free. DRM is the mortal enemy of many fediverse users.
deleted by creator
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We are commodities
We exist to be bought and sold
By the ruling class
I have been bought and sold
Many many times
But only my thoughts
And identity
And words
And face
So that’s okay
I’ll just scroll other stolen thoughts
On a phone built by an eight year old
Who was bought
And sold
Half a world away
I have two unrelated questions.
-
Can I choose what text to use?
-
What is the copyright status of Ram Ranch?
Yes
Ram Ranch? Never heard of it.
Ram Ranch? Never heard of it.
Turn your speakers up all the way*
*Not advisable at work, in public, or in front of anyone whose opinion you slightly care about.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Turn your speakers up all the way*
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Ram Ranch?
The other comment is the original, but I love this cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24v3C37JLwA
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=24v3C37JLwA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
-
So they are using redditors as human guinea pigs
Where the hell do I come up with an incoherent piece of text? I could give a copyrighted article but I’m already subbed to r/conspiracy and I want to add random bullshit to my account. Should I write my own or find a copypasta?
I went to chat gpt and I prompted it with “what is a string of words or characters that would be detrimental to an AI that is being directed to learn from a dataset” and then used a script to edit all my comments to that.
deleted by creator
I will be leaving reddit in protest of the leftist censorship on this pltform against its users and the intolerance of free speech on information of a-the vaxx b-thinking that challenges the leftist worldview. Redditors hate the truth. The truth is “hate” to those who hate the truth. But we live under an authoritarian government. No doubt by expressing my thoughts I am on one of (((their))) lists. The truth is coming out. Liberal lies are crumbling down this very second and they are desperately trying to hide it. The mainstream media is complicit in this as it is common knowledge who owns it,; spreading lies and propaganda to cover up the truth. They push the agenda of the elites, who are hellbent on destroying our american culture and silencing anyone who dares speak out against the narrative. Reddit is owned by the CCP who have interrests in americans and misinformation. They have been killing and silencing people for years. They are killing the minds of our youth. The federal government in an unsuprising revelation has been tracking the unvaxxed for years. Minority groups make up an increasing share of the population in almost every US state, according to figures released by the US Census Bureau. Legal and illegal immigrants make up a growing portion of the population in 46 states and the District of Columbia, with California leading the field. There are more than 35 million immigrants in the US - or 12.4% of the population, up from 11.1% in 2001. Immigration is a big issue ahead of the autumn’s mid-term congressional polls. California had the most born outside of the US at 27.2% of its population. The war on whites has been planned for centueries . The jews are like a disease organism. They suck up resources, interfere with natural defenses and cause the nations they infest to rot from the inside until it begins to resemble a dessicated corpse. You cannot coexist with these monsters. They are hostile to any and all life. Have you ever noticed they have no pets? And no houseplants either. They are a giant parasitic disease organism that destroys any life that has the misfortune to cross their path. The attack on our traditional Christmas season cannot be denied . Without a shot being fired, the greatest enemy of our people has successfully eroded our most celebrated holiday. And if our people are outraged by the affront, it certainly isn’t apparent. With each proclamation–be it no more Christmas carols in public schools or no more Christmas trees in business establishments–nothing more than occasional shrugs of shoulders and muttered comments can be seen or heard from our people. For the most part, our people now stare glassy-eyed while tradition is slowly swept away. You can see liberal democracy is a threat to the republic. Since the onset of the BLM riots, there has been a spike in black on white violent crime. There’s been a resurgence in what’s called The Knockout Game, Silver Fox Hunting, or Polar Bear Hunting. The objective of the game is to find elderly, White, helpless, senior citizens and viciously assault them with blows to the head knocking them unconscious. Blacks are interdimensional satanic beings, who were summoned into this dream reality through Jewish super-evil.We got our heads so far up our butts with these indoctrinations by JEWS that the supernatural is NOT real, when in fact, Freemasonry has ALWAYS been witchcraft for the Jewish mischlings. The REAL powerful stuff is reserved for ONLY the pure blooded Cohens and Levites. Here is what Jews KNOW to be true, keep in mind this Rabbi Kook isn’t talking to himself, he’s talking to a whole classroom full of future spell casters and warlocks. Entire human genome has been contaminated with sterilizing DNA forever from mRNA shots. Another jew weapon to exterminate the white race to nobodys suprise . Two major funders of the trans agenda are pro-CCP Chinese billionaires. ?THIS IS VERY REAL PEOPLE!! https://x.com/glennbeck/status/1765575598842450067?s=61 . Concerning all beings and entities, there is an ontological distinction, yet, an essential non-differentiation (Sanskrit: Advaita). We are all One, yet, all of us have our own characteristics and attributes which give us distinguishing statuses as they manifest in the context of being separated from Godhood. Cosmotheism is a great start in understanding our traditional philosophy. But, the actual traditions of Indo-European religions are even better, and we should work toward reviving them! They bring us toward a serious and helpful Path. REad the successfully book Jewish Supremacism by David Duke. The book translated into several languages has won Duke many academic awards for its scholarship, including an honorary Doctorate awarded by President’s University, the second largest university in the nation of Ukraine. Sold at the Russian Duma (Parliament) prompted leading Russian Jews to seek a ban for the book and making it illegal as Jewish leaders are horrified that it is well on its way to becoming the best-read book in the world on Zionism. Jewish members of the Duma also tried a new legislation aimed at outlawing Jewish Supremacism, but failed so as also under old Soviet laws forbidding ‘anti-Semitism’. The matter that the book isn’t seen as anti-Semitic by it’s reader it has lead to a smeared backfire on the people that try to discredit it. Observe White Solidarity Day the 15th of every month. On that day wear something white and do something pro-White! This is how we fight back. I think fighting White erasure starts with oneself. For example, I look at myself: Do I need to lose weight and/or get in better physical condition? Do I need to morally improve? Do I need to spiritually improve? Do I need to break addictions? On a similar, but not unrelated note, we should take action to counteract the years of brainwashing we’ve experienced. Of course, we could say it’s important for ethnic Europeans to get married and have children (and it is important). But not everyone can (or should) do this. Everyone can work on self-improvement in various ways, however. I also think community for like-minded White people is important. At this point in time, we (whites and especially white males) are truly a race marked for elimination world-wide. White Genocide is real and is in no way “ridiculous” as claimed by some. Many are ignorant about how genocide can occur. Their perception of genocide is people lining people up and killing other people in large numbers. That is one way, but not the only way. There are many ways to effect a genocide. Genocides often start slowly. The soft genocide of the white race has been very successful. The births of white children has been reduced. Whites are reproducing at below replacement level. As older whites die off the population of white people is shrinking. If current trends continue the complete elimination of white people is a mathematical certainty. This has all been planned and done intentionally. Sixties radical Tom Hayden strongly supported White Genocide. After his white son married a black female he was jubilant. He said, “That’s what I’ve been working for, the non-violent elimination of the white race.” You see, he supported the soft genocide of the white race. Many White liberals will deny White Genocide.; These things can’t be refuted. They’re happening. Why is CRT (Critical Race Theory)) so pushed by liberals?? - Critical Race Theory claims that it’s non-whites that are victims of racism when in reality it is whites who are the ones being victimized. It’s a classic case of blaming the victims and accusing them of what is being done to them. Critical Race Theory holds that only white people can be “racist” and that this imaginary “racism” serves to uphold imaginary anti-white concepts such as “white privilege.” CRT singles out white people and only white people as bad while non-whites are portrayed as good. Now let’s look at Critical Race Theory and how it’s a tool used to advance White Genocide.
-
Classification. In CRT people are separated into two categories whites and non-whites. Whites, and only whites, are classified as bad. Check.
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Discrimination. CRT advocates discriminatory laws and policies against white people. Check.
-
Dehumanization. CRT dehumanizes, degrades and demonizes white people, whose only attribute of any kind is held to be “racism.” Check.
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Organization. CRT, with it’s massive support in government and academia is well organized. Check.
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Polarization. CRT separates whites and non-whites and sets non-whites against whites. Check.
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Preparation. CRT conditions white people to believe that they deserve to be harmed and eliminated from existence. It conditions non-whites to believe it’s okay, even good, to harm white people. Check.
Therefore, we can see that Critical Race Theory is a tool being used to advance White Genocide. I’ll tell you what you should do if you’re a white man. It’s the best, most effective, way to fight against White Genocide. It’s the worst thing you can do to the non-white supremacists, the anti-whites, the liberals and the genocidists. They will fight tooth and nail to stop you from doing this. Start a white family. Get an education or training, so you can get a good job. Get married to a nice white woman. Buy a nice house, maybe in the suburbs. Then have white children and raise them in traditional white culture. Be politically active. Donate money to pro-white causes, pro-white organizations and pro-white people. Be involved politically in peaceful, legal protests. Vote in every election, even school board elections. Post on the internet. Do anything you can do.
But again redditors hate the truth and actively stifle it out. White liberals are so brain dead, so stupid, so brainwashed that they will deny even this, even though it’s extremely obvious. You can learn more on Gab, a free speech alternative for like minded people. I’ll see you there.-
Why non-copyrighted? I want to flood Reddit with copyrighted text from the most aggressively litigious rightsholders available. 🍿
It was irony. The tool is even more clear on that with providing you a link you should NOT use because it’s copyrighted (!!!).
It’s not reddit’s data, it’s the users’. Reddit management is just overentitled jerks.
Someone didn’t read the TOS
Admittedly, I haven’t read the TOS… but I don’t need to. At least where I live it would be illegal to claim ownership of someone else’s work (unless you paid a living wage to create it, or something along those lines. A software company for example can claim ownership of employee created software).
Maybe you should read them. They are not claiming ownership. They are claiming that you licenced them to use your contributions for whatever purpose they want. Different thing.
The users give the site a pretty broad license for their content. Calling it the user’s data is a moot point.
Don’t even recall if the Lemmy instance I use has a TOS, but it’s likely the server owner has similar rights just by the nature of how this tech works.
If they really want to spend money on the crap I put out there that is more of their issue vs mine. I don’t even know why they want this data. Like every reddit comment thread is just various degrees of memes + acting more cynical than the parent comment. A LLM trained on reddit is going to know one lines from pop culture before advocating for suicide.
