I wonder why “centrists” are so opposed to Trump in the first place. I feel like they’d actually agree with most of his policies. They’d probably even vote for him if there was a D next to his name.
I don’t think that. Even if they agreed with his policies he’s a boor and an idiot. Dude suggested they nuke a hurricane, and then drew on a map because it disagreed with something he said earlier.
Or here me out, if the current president is aiding in one genocide, prevening another war from ending, and has done absolutly nothing to better my material conditions or the material conditions of my fellows in the working class, and contenues the genocide in cuba. Every campain promise has been broken, they just do not get my vote at all. Like in what world would you say that he earned your vote to give him a second term
The world where America has a two party system and the other candidate is openly fascist and awful?
Also… “Every campaign promise broken” is such hyperbole that I have to think that you’re either a troll or just ignorant. Whenever people say stuff like this they never provide examples or they conveniently ignore all the places where a campaign promise WAS kept, or is in the works.
Until we can reform our voting system to something like ranked choice, approval voting, or STAR, we have a two party system with one party generally maintaining the status quo with some nice social progress and the other party actively trying to make people’s lives worse. That second party loves this shit and maybe you should consider why so many of their efforts are about trying to convince people not to vote.
Been hearing this exact same argument since my first time voting for Obama, right out of high school. Literally nothing has changed. I don’t see how voting unconditionally for somebody is going to convince them to change their ways. If anything, it’s telling them that everything they’re doing is okay.
I really hope this is the election where the Dems realize dismissing everyone to their left and expecting them to vote for you anyways is not a winning strategy. Biden is sleepwalking into a devastating loss and nobody is doing anything to correct course.
if my only choice is evil i will always automatically choose less evil. its really not even a choice.
if we really care about this shit, we would be pushing grass-roots ranked-choice voting to incur actual 3rd parties that matter. but we arent. so less evil it is. you can choose more evil if that makes you feel better, but you should know youre fucking everyone else over.
Or you can choose something else entirely and not support a genocide. Turns out, if enough people do this, there’s even a small chance they might win. There’s even a chance that if they don’t win that this will push or even terrorize one of the major parties into moving to your position. But perhaps your conscience allows you to support a genocide. I certainly don’t have the stomach for that though.
So your argument is they don’t understand the US presidential system because a vote against Biden in the Wisconsin Democratic primary is a vote for Trump?
No. I say that based on their own comments in this post.
Edit. This community is ridiculous. It’s all people that don’t live in the US, and Don’t have a grasp on the US voting system, trying to tell other people in the US how they should vote. Fuck off. I’m blocking this nonsense comm. You all can have fun circle jerking each other.
i live in the US where my choice is evil or more evil.
youre telling me to choose more evil
choosing more evil at home might make you feel better about foreign policy, you are voting against your own ability to make this choice in the future. you are making your home life worse thinking you are helping people abroad, but in the long run you are not only helping evil at home, you are not going to help those abroad as the US is more than the president. it is silly to pretend trump will do anything but help russia and israel.
again, you only have 2 choices evil or more evil. pick one.
that is a false dilema, you also have, writting “Fuck Off I want someone better” on the ballot in that spot. Does it count as a vote… no… is it evil, no in the choice I gave you you did not chose evil at all.
Does the US not permit Write-In candidates or third parties? Crazy, I could have sworn they did. A miniscule, even infinitesimal chance of winning by voting for a not evil candidate sounds more morally palatable to me than voting for a war criminal. You do you though, I’m quite certain your conscience can handle it.
yes and no. depends on the state, but reality dictates in our current system and with the current candidates every vote for 3rd party will be a tacit vote for trump.
dont vote? thats a vote for trump. vote for a 3rd party? thats a vote for trump.
until we have an actual system that supports 3rd parties we have no choice. because the vote for trump/republicans leads to a system with less parties than 2, not more.
my conscience says i want more parties. my conscience says ‘vote less evil not more’.
no they are not “votes for trump” are they votes biden is not getting yes, however the only way they are “Votes for trump” is if you are starting with the assumption that Biden either already has or inharently deserves the votes. He does not, he does not have my vote and not giving it to him is taking a vote from him. he has to earn it, and he has not
Amazing! All those votes that came in for Trump and they could have just voted 3rd party instead to get the same result! Why does anyone even bother voting for Trump? They could just vote for the person with the shortest name that isn’t Biden!
Actually if the US became a single party state for a term because there is no difference between the established parties, assuming first past the post is still in place, a 2nd party would be forced into electoral relevancy, so that would actually be the preferred outcome of not voting for the current two parties.
This is the same logic as those people who argue that bombing Japan actually saved lives, because an invasion would’ve resulted in more deaths. You’ve been brainwashed. Full stop.
That’s some terrible logic right there.Fascism also goes “hand in hand” with getting the trains to run on time.
Treaties and allies are complicated. And Israel has been a long ally to the US. Breaking that relationship potentially removes a US presence in the middle east and impacts our intelligence gathering capabilities. Something that could have a lasting impact on US security.
I’m not defending Israel. But what Israel is doing is being done by Israel.
If you think American capital and military industrial complex isn’t interfering in US elections then you haven’t been paying attention.
If your representative democracy is so fragile that $50K in Facebook ads in an election worth over 2 billions made a significant difference, you have bigger issues than foreign interference. News flash, you do. Stop blaming everyone but yourselves.
I have no doubt he is, but I think his aim is to get Trump and MAGAts elected because they are useful. Protest voters in cheese hats are not on his radar.
I’m not really worried about the 200k that Russia spent on Facebook ads in 2016. I’m much more concerned about the millions spent by Israel and “friends of Israel” on almost every currently elected politician. Are you actually concerned about foreign interference in US elections?
perfect! just as putin wants. vote your conscience, vote fascism
IT’S A PRIMARY
Aren’t you people always on about how we’re allowed to vote how we want in a primary?
Primary vote is when you vote your conscience, general is when you hold your nose and do what needs to be done.
This is a good time to make your voice heard and pressure the current administration.
“NO NO NO! Anything that is not 100% loyalty toward Biden means Trump will win!” - centrists
I wonder why “centrists” are so opposed to Trump in the first place. I feel like they’d actually agree with most of his policies. They’d probably even vote for him if there was a D next to his name.
I don’t think that. Even if they agreed with his policies he’s a boor and an idiot. Dude suggested they nuke a hurricane, and then drew on a map because it disagreed with something he said earlier.
Trump doesn’t have any policies. He’s a narcissist who spills incoherent word vomit full of dreams of nothing but vengeance.
said no centrist ever.
also, again, primary.
I remember the Michigan primary and a lot of centrists said that
Yep. Now is the time to express your choice to change local politics and influence those who vote on the national platform.
Or here me out, if the current president is aiding in one genocide, prevening another war from ending, and has done absolutly nothing to better my material conditions or the material conditions of my fellows in the working class, and contenues the genocide in cuba. Every campain promise has been broken, they just do not get my vote at all. Like in what world would you say that he earned your vote to give him a second term
The world where America has a two party system and the other candidate is openly fascist and awful?
Also… “Every campaign promise broken” is such hyperbole that I have to think that you’re either a troll or just ignorant. Whenever people say stuff like this they never provide examples or they conveniently ignore all the places where a campaign promise WAS kept, or is in the works.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/
Until we can reform our voting system to something like ranked choice, approval voting, or STAR, we have a two party system with one party generally maintaining the status quo with some nice social progress and the other party actively trying to make people’s lives worse. That second party loves this shit and maybe you should consider why so many of their efforts are about trying to convince people not to vote.
Been hearing this exact same argument since my first time voting for Obama, right out of high school. Literally nothing has changed. I don’t see how voting unconditionally for somebody is going to convince them to change their ways. If anything, it’s telling them that everything they’re doing is okay.
I really hope this is the election where the Dems realize dismissing everyone to their left and expecting them to vote for you anyways is not a winning strategy. Biden is sleepwalking into a devastating loss and nobody is doing anything to correct course.
If the choices are fascism or moderate fascism, maybe try offering something better than fascism?
if my only choice is evil i will always automatically choose less evil. its really not even a choice.
if we really care about this shit, we would be pushing grass-roots ranked-choice voting to incur actual 3rd parties that matter. but we arent. so less evil it is. you can choose more evil if that makes you feel better, but you should know youre fucking everyone else over.
Or you can choose something else entirely and not support a genocide. Turns out, if enough people do this, there’s even a small chance they might win. There’s even a chance that if they don’t win that this will push or even terrorize one of the major parties into moving to your position. But perhaps your conscience allows you to support a genocide. I certainly don’t have the stomach for that though.
Edit: A word
Who are you suggesting to vote for in the US presidential race that doesn’t support Israel?
Party for socialism and liberation.
you know if no one voted it would be harder than it already is to claim a ligitimate democracy
They haven’t thought that far ahead.
They didn’t even know what they’re talking about, they don’t even understand the US electoral system.
So your argument is they don’t understand the US presidential system because a vote against Biden in the Wisconsin Democratic primary is a vote for Trump?
No. I say that based on their own comments in this post.
Edit. This community is ridiculous. It’s all people that don’t live in the US, and Don’t have a grasp on the US voting system, trying to tell other people in the US how they should vote. Fuck off. I’m blocking this nonsense comm. You all can have fun circle jerking each other.
Account is only a month old as well. Totally nothing suspicious
Once you two are done licking hole in here you feel free to come back out to join the rest of us.
Check out Jill Stein and Cornel West.
i live in the US where my choice is evil or more evil.
youre telling me to choose more evil
choosing more evil at home might make you feel better about foreign policy, you are voting against your own ability to make this choice in the future. you are making your home life worse thinking you are helping people abroad, but in the long run you are not only helping evil at home, you are not going to help those abroad as the US is more than the president. it is silly to pretend trump will do anything but help russia and israel.
again, you only have 2 choices evil or more evil. pick one.
that is a false dilema, you also have, writting “Fuck Off I want someone better” on the ballot in that spot. Does it count as a vote… no… is it evil, no in the choice I gave you you did not chose evil at all.
You have a secret, third choice, not seen successfully on a US president since Kennedy.
And who’s that magical secret third choice? Your mom?
I believe yeather@lemmy.ca is suggesting assassination of a US political figure.
Oh. That’s stupid.
deleted by creator
Does the US not permit Write-In candidates or third parties? Crazy, I could have sworn they did. A miniscule, even infinitesimal chance of winning by voting for a not evil candidate sounds more morally palatable to me than voting for a war criminal. You do you though, I’m quite certain your conscience can handle it.
yes and no. depends on the state, but reality dictates in our current system and with the current candidates every vote for 3rd party will be a tacit vote for trump.
dont vote? thats a vote for trump. vote for a 3rd party? thats a vote for trump.
until we have an actual system that supports 3rd parties we have no choice. because the vote for trump/republicans leads to a system with less parties than 2, not more.
my conscience says i want more parties. my conscience says ‘vote less evil not more’.
no they are not “votes for trump” are they votes biden is not getting yes, however the only way they are “Votes for trump” is if you are starting with the assumption that Biden either already has or inharently deserves the votes. He does not, he does not have my vote and not giving it to him is taking a vote from him. he has to earn it, and he has not
Amazing! All those votes that came in for Trump and they could have just voted 3rd party instead to get the same result! Why does anyone even bother voting for Trump? They could just vote for the person with the shortest name that isn’t Biden!
Actually if the US became a single party state for a term because there is no difference between the established parties, assuming first past the post is still in place, a 2nd party would be forced into electoral relevancy, so that would actually be the preferred outcome of not voting for the current two parties.
Third party votes being for Trump is only correct if you assume libertarian votes are for Biden.
Do you have an examples you’d like to cite of this happening in the context of a US presidential election?
Nope, just the ability to perform elementary arithmetic.
Oh so, what’s the arithmetic for how many times this has happened?
0 + 0 = 0
Coincidentally, that’s also the likelihood of this happening.
Well thank god such a renowned statistician has taken an interest in this subject.
You’re already in here pretending to be a renowned electoral scholar. I say thier math adds up better than yours.
This is what lesser of two evils politics gets you: enthusiastic support of a genocide.
Tangential: ranked choice voting seems to be gaining momentum in progressive states. Definitely keep pushing for that, too.
I have a beetle and a spider in front of me. Which one should I squish? It’s all on you!!!
This is the same logic as those people who argue that bombing Japan actually saved lives, because an invasion would’ve resulted in more deaths. You’ve been brainwashed. Full stop.
You think this administration is fascist?
I think fascism and support for a genocide tend to go hand in hand, so maybe I’m just getting there by working backwards.
That’s some terrible logic right there.Fascism also goes “hand in hand” with getting the trains to run on time.
Treaties and allies are complicated. And Israel has been a long ally to the US. Breaking that relationship potentially removes a US presence in the middle east and impacts our intelligence gathering capabilities. Something that could have a lasting impact on US security.
I’m not defending Israel. But what Israel is doing is being done by Israel.
What Israel is doing is only possible because of US enthusiastic support.
And it’s being supported by the US. There should be conditions for support, and currently there are none.
You’re a sh.ithead, yes you fucking are lol
Putin does not give a shit about a protest vote in a race that’s already over in a state that nobody’s heard of.
You… have never heard of Wisconsin before? What
if you think that russia hasnt been interfering in US elections (regardless of state) then you have not been paying attention.
If you think American capital and military industrial complex isn’t interfering in US elections then you haven’t been paying attention.
If your representative democracy is so fragile that $50K in Facebook ads in an election worth over 2 billions made a significant difference, you have bigger issues than foreign interference. News flash, you do. Stop blaming everyone but yourselves.
ok, so? my point stands
I have no doubt he is, but I think his aim is to get Trump and MAGAts elected because they are useful. Protest voters in cheese hats are not on his radar.
I’m not really worried about the 200k that Russia spent on Facebook ads in 2016. I’m much more concerned about the millions spent by Israel and “friends of Israel” on almost every currently elected politician. Are you actually concerned about foreign interference in US elections?
The Mass Murder Enjoyer has logged on.
Voting for EITHER main party is voting for fascism.
One just wants it to arrive quickly and one doesn’t want you to notice it’s happening.