I saw an article about them attacking Lebanon now. So, where will it stop? Have the Israeli government ever spoken about this?

  • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    The claim of Israeli apartheid does not pertain to the status of Israeli Arabs fyi. It pertains to de facto Israeli control of Gaza and the West Bank, where any time they want the IDF can exercise as much control as they want, by virtue of superior firepower.

    Hamas, for instance, only persisted because the Israelis allowed it. Israel controlled the majority of access to the regions, and could and did unilaterally police them with military force at will.

    • YourPrivatHater@ani.social
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      5 months ago

      Yeah shure because Hamas isnt constantly firing rockets into Israel… If there is a defakto control how exactly would the 7th October have happened…

      This is just idiotic.

      • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        De facto control does not mean 100% control over every event that happens. People are still humans, and capable of making errors. It is not mind reading/mind control powers, those are still impossible.

        • YourPrivatHater@ani.social
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          5 months ago

          Yeah shure…

          Israel has defakto 0 control over Gaza except for the borders normally. Everything inside is controlled by Hamas. And if you think otherwise you have never been there and you don’t know anything about it.

          • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Except they would routinely send in military forces to capture terrorist suspects in a process they referred to as “mowing the grass”. It’s even more pronounced in the West Bank, where the Israeli settlements are thoroughly intermingled with the Palestinian ones, and the Palestinians had relatively few powers over their own security.

            It’s not a simple thing, unfortunately. Middle Eastern politics seldom are, just in general.

            • YourPrivatHater@ani.social
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              5 months ago

              The civilians in Palestinia in general are victims, thats clear, but the reason they are is hamas and the narrative they propagate about the victim hood that got somehow transferred through generations just as their state as refugees would have according to them.

              But yes the settlement thing is a shitshow, but nither side recognized the existence of the other and both claim the possession of the entire area, however, Israel clearly has more rights to it due to the fact that the people in Gaza and the other parts aren’t the people that lived there before Israel, they are mostly the descendants of the Arabs that attacked Israel shortly after it was declared a state, with the intention of a genocide. The original Palestinians live in Israel (many of them btw killed on the 7th October pogrom/genocide attempt) and have the same rights as the Christians, jews and everyone else, Israel is a super diverse country with lots of immigrants from all over the world. The claims about apartheid by Hamas (supported by un) are absolutely outlandish and just not true.

              Oh and… When you have terrorists as you neighborhood you gotta make shure they don’t plot teroristic shit and remove the ones that do. That doesn’t mean anything about control thats just trying to keep a never ending Forrest fire within certain boundaries.

              • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                The claim of Israeli apartheid is not a hamas claim, it’s acknowledged by various Israelis as well. Neither Gaza nor, especially the West Bank, has had full independence in many years.

                Note, I am not talking about any Israeli citizens. I am talking about Israeli non-citizens who live under Israeli restrictions and off-and-on military control. This is the nature of apartheid. A people that is separate, but not fully independent. An in-between state of conquest, where you’re sort-of conquered but not really and have some, but not full, freedoms.

                • YourPrivatHater@ani.social
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                  5 months ago

                  Uhhh autonomous regions that don’t see themselves as part of a country and behave like that are obviously not treated like citizens… Thats not apartheid thats common sense. And Israel blockade of Gaza is 100% justified because hamas uses basically everything as weapon transport.

                  • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Except it is not under full Palestinian control either. Some things are controlled by Palestinians, other things are indeed controlled by Israelis. When a country is exercising partial control over citizens that are not its own, something odd is happening.

                    You can justify it if you like, but it is not the normal way of things where free people are concerned.

          • zbyte64@awful.systems
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            5 months ago

            I mean if you born in Gaza your birth needs to be registered with Israel. Otherwise you will lack the necessary documents to get through the checkpoints.

            • YourPrivatHater@ani.social
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              5 months ago

              Obviously, Gaza or Palestinia in general doesn’t give out recognized papers. Its a autonomous region for a reason.

              They wouldn’t be allowed to enter any other country without said documents either.

              There is no actual reason why it should ne otherwise.

              • zbyte64@awful.systems
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                5 months ago

                “Autonomous region” is a technical label, but it does not negate the fact they don’t control their borders or who ultimately says their children are actual people.