Lol, right?

My dad was in the Air Force so we moved all over the place, but whenever we were stationed in the South in the 90’s I would often be the first Asian person to ever go to that school.

“prove trickle down doesn’t work”…cuts to me gesturing at my surroundings wildly

There’s really no longer any kind of gatekeeping preventing people from just being a clown. The proof is in the pudding, you are a clown if you can do all the things a professional clown can do. Now turning it into a career you can pay rent with is the real challenging aspect, which is true of most performing arts.

My wife is in a professional dance company that focuses on aerial dance, and has performed around professional clowns in the past. If you want to just busk you don’t need anything but skills, but if you want to perform on stage or tour you will need to hook up with some kind of performing arts company or an artist co-op.

Saying “it’s us, men” (to rule the world) is inherently a narrative that avoid discussing the class division,

I wasn’t the one who claimed white young men were being systemically oppressed… If you are examining class division through gender then it is an impossible topic to avoid.

You can’t have it both ways. I’ve been saying the whole time it doesn’t make sense to examine class struggle through the lens of gender, my claim about “us men” was made to highlight the contradictory nature of the original claim.

because being a man is not being part of a social class.

That is what I’ve been saying the whole time…

The reason I brought it up was to dispel the claim that white men were being specifically targeted in the first place.

Did you not read the context of the post?

maybe it feels like oppression because it is.

Oppression being committed by who exactly? What demographic currently holds the reigns of power in our governmental and economic hierarchy?

Nobody in this thread has their mind open to the possibility that structural changes disadvantaging (young, predominantly white) men can happen even when other groups are continuing to be held back.

What you don’t understand is that if they are coming for young white men now, it’s only because they’ve run out of minorities to disenfranchise. So if everyone nis getting abused now…it’s a class struggle.

The reason no one is responding to the blooming problems of young white men is because those have been problems everyone else has already been experiencing. And guess what, the majority of young white men didn’t ever want to hear about the problems of everyone else.

Now that you are experiencing the same issue…does this make you more empathetic to the troubles of your fellow workers…No, you bitch and moan about anyone trying to say it’s not just a problem for young white men. You still care nothing about class solidarity, you just want to bitch about your own demographic being kicked out of the free treat club.

hope you realize how alienating a sentence like this is, for someone who is as stomped by society as many women are.

How? How am I alienating anyone by telling them something they already know?

This narrative is exactly what prevents any form of class solidarity

What the fuck are you talking about? Did you not read the rest of the post… My point was that if being a man isn’t the inherent source of your struggle then it must not be the real problem…the real problem is class war.

You don’t believe in equality, PERIOD. Because people like you oppose women being drafted.

Wrong fuck face, I don’t believe in the draft for men or women.

You also deny systemic misandry like the alimony laws & even support policies like abolishing prisons for women & reduced sentencing for women & only women.

The majority of law makers are men, the majority of judges are men, the majority of law enforcement officers are men… How is men making rules that you perceive to negatively affect men = misandry?

There are multiple documented evidences of feminists shaming men into getting drafted while they get to be safe & secure & one of their excuses was “We have a crisis in masculinity”

Lol, you really think the white feathers was a feminist movement?

Finland has a women-majority govt](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carmenniethammer/2019/12/12/finlands-new-government-is-young-and-led-by-women-heres-what-the-country-does-to-promote-diversity/), of course the diversity part is a lie.

“Moreover, almost half (47%) of the country’s” having a woman as the leader doesn’t mean they have the majority. You’re either lying or you can’t fucking read.

I like that you posted an article praising the quality of living and equity in a country and think it helps your argument.

EU is led by feminists & BTW, pandering to women is also feminism, there are literally reserved seats for women & a male-only draft. These are all Equity to you huh

Lol, I don’t think you know what equity, feminism, or majority means.

like how you’re putting in so much effort into pushing the narrative that it’s men who do it, when the biggest warmongers just so happen to be women & there’s not a single word of opposition to the draft by feminists.

Lol, name a time in modern history where a woman was the leader of a nation who started a war…

Like the White-feather movement being nationalistic, yet it was still women who shamed men into fighting the war (women didn’t want to go to war & even today women as a whole are opposed to conscription for women)

And you think I like the white feathers? Being a feminist doesn’t mean you support every decision of every woman… That’s just insane. That would be like me blaming every man, for WW2 because Hitler was a dude.

Reminder women in the military are placed in either guard duty or administration.

Lol, that’s not even true… Women have been allowed to be in combat roles since 2013.

And guess what, it’s not the women who say they shouldn’t be

The same can be said about you too, you know you are not getting shit done against the ownership class so resorting to insulting and demeaning anyone who appears privileged to you.

Lol, I’m the same because I’m upset that people aren’t engaging in class consciousness?

You want to really fight a class war? How about starting by not out of frustration humiliating anyone who has different symptoms of the same problem as you.

I’m making fun of people who claim to be leftist, but only care about their own demographics. You can’t be a leftist and abandon the very basic idea of class consciousness.

Sure men talking about their problems is misogyny,

It is when you talk to them about their problems and all they do is bitch and moan about dei.

you can’t gate keep the left, and anybody who is reading this, some people at left accept you and adversiory despite of your gender

Again … This isn’t about their gender. I’m a dude. Its about how they’ve abandoned class consciousness and are demeaning the struggles of their fellow working class by claiming they somehow have it worse than everyone else. And when you ask them why… You just end up getting thinly veiled misogyny.

a male dominated profession

True, but does that make Giorgia Meloni a fascist DEI hire?

Yeah, they seem to be more on the side of “national socialism” than actual socialism. Socialism…but only for a certain demographic that happens to encompass me and people who look and act like me.

Well If it helps I think you made really good points, and in a much more civil manner than what that guy deserved…and he still tried to frame you as having a “hostile tone”. Misogynistic never fucking change.

Keep up the good fight

Yeah… I didn’t think the culture was as ubiquitous. Kinda scary to see on a platform with so many self professed “leftist”. You can’t seriously think you are on the left when you only care about providing for your specific demographic.

The kids are not alright apparently.

This fucking thread is crazy… especially these dudes trying to wrap their misogyny in faux leftist babbling.

There is no struggle but class struggle. They’re just pissed they missed the bus on being invited to the ownership class and now they’re stuck down here with everyone else.

Men huh, Finland is a feminist govt that has a male-only draft.

Men still make up the majority of the parliament in Finland, though that particular country has a long history of promoting equity.

Oh & EU is feminist led

You mean that the EU has leaders who are feminist… Men still hold the majority of the seats.

Feminists & women are pandered to by those men. Those men are kinda like you.

Oh no… People who believe in equality…the tragedy.

Of course some like you is going to victim blame men

How exactly are you being victimized while I am not… and we’re both men?

Another example is the white feather movement

Lol, that was a nationalistic movement to get people to go to war. I don’t really think women were really in control of the war effort during WW2.

Women have strong support movement on their side. It’s not something they gain only through their sex, but rather something they gain I think mostly due to the same gender stereotypes that also act against them.

That seems like a self inflicted issue… What are women supposed to do about this? In my life it has usually been women begging their husbands to speak to them or to go to therapy.

Same stereotypes which isolate men and make them suffer in silence and alone, making showing any sign of weakness a fatal mistake.

And who propogates and sustains this stereotype? Sounds like you should be mad at men.

honestly don’t see your point here - what commenter above you said is right, and sure as hell they didn’t mention that it doesn’t work the other way around.

That would imply it’s not simply a mens problem…

What are men problems, huh? Like, dunno, expectation to always go after that false masculinity. Also, as far as I understand it, what you quoted above this part is just continuation of the point above it, nothing to add here.

The person I responded to was saying women were being targeted by capitalistic marketing… How is that a mens problem. My point is that it’s not a mens problem it’s a capitalist problem.

Yeah, but affects genders differently. Men are eaten, ground to a paste and then spat out. Women are bellitled and their work is seen as substandard. One side doesn’t make the other any less, both are problems and commenter above you didn’t say men have it worse, just that they suffer from it.

Lol, so it’s a class problem… Of course the poor suffer, that’s why we’re supposed to have class solidarity, not become misogynistic.

Men do not get help. We do not have the same societal networks that women have to get together and stand up. And even if women decided to fight for us, it’s for naught until we are able to start getting up by ourselves.

That doesn’t explain the blatant misogyny in this thread and in the youth in general.

kay. What’s with that obsession with women? Commenter above you mentioned once that feminism can use men to portray them as evil, which they do because guess who makes them suffer most, and yet due to that you immediately went and threw everything they said as if they did nothing else but accuse women of men’s suffering.

This whole thread and post is about the gender dynamic and the blooming network of misogyny. And because his interpretation of economics is devoid of class consciousness, he and you only focus on the problems of young men, which is a demographic and not a class.

Women gain on current situation so it makes sense they don’t act.

• Corporations gain on current situation so it makes sense they don’t act.
• Rich gain, and even if not then loose nothing on current situation so it makes sense they don’t act.

How do women gain? Who runs the corporations?

, the incentive is for us to move our asses, take notes from women and build our own support networks. But that is actually fought against by conservatists/right-wingers, because lonely and lost men make cheap and easily influenced canon fodder.

Who do you think runs the fucking world already…its us, men.

So obviously nwe don’t need much support that is just based on gender. Of the people doing well right now…it’s mostly men.

What separates us and the people who run the world isn’t gender…its class. You can’t build a supportive class network and only focus on young men.

In my experience the problem isn’t the masculinity influencers. Those are just the symptom of misandry in media and a near-total lack of support in society for men, especially young men. When you go on social media almost all discussion concerning men is about how they are the root of all evil, and everything they do is wrong. It’s a never ending stream of shaming with no clear way out.

Oh yeah…I’m totally feeling that in this thread and every other one on this site talking about gender. Sure really needs like it’s women attacking us men and not the other way round /s. It’s not like the largest social platform on the Internet (reddit), and the largest podcast on the Internet(Joe Rogan) and the largest news network (fox) is biased against women or anything.

You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t: If you try to defend yourself or talk about your own problems as a man, it is labeled as misogyny. “Be vulnerable and open up” they say but if you do it’s “don’t center men you privileged fuck” or “you’re being a crybaby”.

By who? This is pure projection. Look at who is being up votes and down votes in this very thread.

this pressure is an impossible equation to solve for a young man who has been pushed by misandrists into insecurity and longs to be accepted in his community. Not just because society’s demands are internally inconsistent, but because they clash with patriarchal ideals among the typical women you’ll meet IRL.

Is the misandrist in the room with us right now? Where are these misandrist? I’m man, I don’t have any misandrist hounding me. But maybe that’s because I don’t consider women defending themselves as misandry…

I’m past 40 and while in my head I still consider myself progressive, I used to show it much more when I was younger. I was honest about my insecurities, I would try not to take up too much space as a man, would try to split responsibilities equally, and so on.

As a fellow middle aged man, I can already tell you have an epic serving of highly divorced man energy. Being progressive isn’t about withdrawing and shriveling up like an old wrinkly penis. It is about defending the people who need it and making space for people who deserve it, it is about class solidarity.

At every turn this has caused me problems in relationships, not least with my wife of 10 years who left me for some muscular macho guy because she “doesn’t feel like I can take care of her”.

Yep, I was right. I am a “muscular macho guy”, you know what I also am… A feminist. Don’t hate on feminism just because you have no game.

to balance on the needle of acting like I’m not as progressive as I am so women don’t “get the ick”, while not tripping into what would be labeled misogyny. It’s an extremely difficult game to play and it frustrates me to no end that this is where we’re at. I’m moving in soon with a woman who I’ve been dating for a couple of years and it’s clear that she desires that I take a leadership position in the home, whereas I’m just longing for a partner who will share the burden with me instead of becoming my subject.

Get the ick? You said you were fourty…right? You can be masculine and still be a feminist dude, women like being respected…you know because they’re people. I can tell you this now, if you keep taking relationships advice from a bunch of influencers, it’s not going to end well.

You can be masculine, have class solidarity, and be a feminist. I rebuilt my own house, work with my hands, lift 3-4 times a week, and am currently building an AR-15…I’m also a leftist who believes feminism is a foundational theory of class consciousness.

Guess what, Ive been happily married to a professional dancer for 10 years… maybe the feminism isn’t the fucking problem bro.

Lol, by who?

Who would even be able to enforce this… The politicians who are mostly men, the CEO who own silicon valley…mostly men. The police who would enforce the law…oh also men.

You guys are just scared of your own shadows… Some real soft shit going on in this thread.

In nearly every society on earth, since the beginning of recorded history… Men have achieved nearly a totalitarian monopoly in nearly every hierarchy of power.

Even today, what gender are the majority of ceo, the congressmen, the senator, the judges, prosecutors, and the police? Examine the leadership of nearly any hierarchical body of control and the majority of these positions are men… So what power is attacking men, what industry, what laws…If it’s men attacking young men…then it’s not a gender issue, it’s a class issue you fucking children.

problem is the systemic impoverishment of young men is the root cause of all this, and that is what needs to be fixed if you want to fix misogyny.

You are using misogyny as a negotiation tactic? “Guess will just have to let bad things happen to you until boys get their treats again…”

What a fucking loser. Can’t cope with not getting insta middle class for nothing so they become a reactionary chode… Real great class solidarity bro.

I can’t believe how much shit you are getting while having perfectly valid and rational claims. The fact this fucking chode is claiming your being reactionary while he froths at the mouth with accusations nof misandry is making me feel insane.

You are being too kind, but I will use the privilege reserved for middle aged man to fucking yell at emotional little boys throwing tantrums.

From the 70’s to a few months ago, governments have made it a fundamental priority to elevate women and minorities, and it’s worked. (Go look at the demographics of college enrollment, at least here in the US, if you don’t believe me.)

And when exactly did those college enrollment demographics change? Oh yeah, the moment college degrees became worthless. White men are choosing not to go to college, they aren’t being forced, were not running out of colleges.

I’m arguing that to fix misogyny you have to fix the fundamental economic crises affecting young people

Well, you’re not just saying that… If we were to say start a program to fix the economic crisis that is effecting the youth, how would you go about doing that? Oh by targeting the most disadvantaged demographics…oh no, that would be…DEI.

blaming young men and pretending these problems simply don’t exist.

You are the one pretending as if this was only a problem for young white men. You’re just taking your licks for the first time and being a baby about it.

Exactly…that’s been the status quo for young white men only. People of color and women have been getting the shit end of the stick the whole time.

Is there even an incentive for solving men’s problems?

What are men’s problems? What problem do we suffer that also doesn’t affect women?

Feminism can use men to portray the ultimate evil; influencers can use that portrayal to criticize men, engage in rage bait, get attention and secure brand deals.

Isn’t that what you are doing to feminist right now? Isn’t that what the article is talking about with the man-o-sphere?

Capitalism can appease women to promote consumerism wrapped in feminism. Corporations can capitalize on men’s loneliness and low self-worth.

Lol, like we men are immune from corporations promoting masculinity? Old spice, axe body spray, every sports based commercial… What gender do you think the majority of the CEO for these companies are?

have noticed that men with low self-worth find meaning in work, which ultimately profits corporations, the money they will earn will be expanded on consumerisms/additions which again can be profited by capitalism and corporate.

Capitalism isn’t a fucking gender problem…it is the thing making everyone’s lives miserable. If we wanted to examine gender in capitalism we can take a look at which of the genders gains more from the system. What percent of the oligarchs are men, how many billionaires are men, how many senators and judges that keep the system going… it’s mostly dudes.

The rich can have as many resources as they want, so why solve it? Other than individuals (men) taking matters in their own hands and rescuing each other I don’t think there is enough incentive to help men as community or whole

And the rich switch genders or something? Women can’t be part of the struggle against capitalism? What is wrong with you guys, do you not have mothers, sisters, women in your lives who are just friends?

I can’t be the only one here who thinks this is insane, right?

Young white men are being squeezed out of the ownership class for the first time and it’s because it’s the only demographic that hasn’t already been squeezed at this late stage of capitalism. The problem isn’t with women, it is the economic system that dangles a carrot for some, so they’ll wield the stick against others…and we’re all out of carrots. Welcome to the party, everyone else has been getting the stick the whole fucking time.