I was using hyperbole but the intention is the same.
Sorry I’m bad at reading facial expression over the internet. My mistake.
What you clearly missed was the point of the law.
I literally quoted the law: “where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be stirred up against such a group.”
That goes beyond what you claim. While even a possession of such speech would be an offence.
ANYBODY can have a twitter, youtube, tiktok, etc account and immediately have access to a platform where they can potentially speak to thousands of people,
That is a bit trivializing. Not everybody is able to build a following, you need to bring something to the table for people to watch you. Given it can be just being somehow entertaining like tate. But it’s not like every bigot gets automatically Rowling’s reach, she had to write a rather popular children book for it.
and some of them are pretty impressionable
That is the core question to what degree is someone responsible for actions others created by their words. There are obvious clear cases but I think the law gets rather unclear with “or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be stirred up against such a group.” (Part 2, Section 3. 32). That’s rather broad and unclear in my opinion.
Glad that someone else actually read the law.
You cannot say “transgender people don’t deserve rights” because you are harassing them directly.
That exactly what I personally think is problematic, because I would fundamentally disagree that this is “directly” - but you are right that this is exactly that will be an offence under that law. The same goes for possession of inflammatory material (Part 3, Section 5, 47). Especially with digital media that seems rather murky.
Again I find Rowling opinion on trans people rather disgusting and genuinely damaging. But the law seems to me rather excessive. But maybe I’m missing something.
You should maybe read the law.
Part 2 Section 3, 32: […] It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening, abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be stirred up against such a group.
It’s talking about likely consequence not after a crime has been committed. Also:
Part 2 Section 5, 47: Section 5(1) creates an offence of possession of racially inflammatory material. It provides that it is an offence for a person to have in their possession threatening, abusive or insulting material with a view to communicating the material to another person, with either the intention to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or where it is likely that, if the material were communicated, hatred will be stirred up against such a group.
Which makes possession of inflammatory material an offence. Which is rather murky on it’s own, but even more so in digital age.
Later it quite literally defines on which terms it’s permissive to discuss sexual orientation or religion.
To be fair, maybe I missed something so feel free to correct me:
My argument is more, that while I trust at least some governments with deciding on what food is safe, I don’t trust governments at all with decisions about what speech is permitted.
Agreed. It just becomes problematic when speech itself is redefined as crime, that is what I’m arguing against. And the the line with the consequences is not that clear either. Someone could read a book and go an kill someone. I personally think it’s a hard thing to really understand consequences of words.
How should I know? I personally don’t follow those crazy people.
Dude, I’m not siding with her on any issue besides freedom of speech - which just happen to be my opinion.
Calling for extermination, I would agree on. Since it’s more than an opinion it’s a call to action.
Most sane countries don’t have a lot trouble with this.
I’m really curious for examples.
Taliban are obviously the only terrorist group on the planet and rebels were never before labeled as terrorists.
My right to travel is not infringed because I can walk.
Hateful people will be inspired by books and by speech to be hateful and to hurt others. Not sure why you draw the line at books, since also speech can be used as a lesson.
I would also there is fundamental differences between causing an immediate panick and voicing a hateful opinion. The later was times and times misused to silence governmental criticis. Sure - this time it might turn out different, since good guys are in power, but I highly doubt it.
So it’s about how a law is applied. And you still don’t see the potential danger of a law regulating speech? Guess we won’t agree on this one.
I don’t really see a benefit in people being forced to phrase their hateful opinions in a way to circumvent laws. In the end, Rowling won’t stop spreading her bigoted hateful bullshit - in best case she will just phrase it a bit different, which actually might get some stupid moderates on her side.
And I’m arguing that it’s a bad idea. Germany is a good example, banning holocaust denial did not stop AFD from raising and getting political power. We were not even able to forbid the damn NDP.
Maybe you are misunderstanding me, I’m not arguing for censorship of books but against censorship op speech.
Good question. But than again - not sure you want to be judged on sensitive topic by a group of peers, I’m not a huge fan of that concept to be honest.
Terrorist for ones are maybe freedom fighters for others - kind of sketchy line over there.
What could go wrong? Assange and Manning would like a word with you.
Kind of depends? There are books around that are rather direct in their hurtful message.
Oh no I’m embarrassing myself in the internet, how will I ever live that one down.
Governments have a bad track record (in my opinion) when it comes to vaguely defined laws.
I would absolutely agree that we have a gigantic problem with modern forms of mass communication. For me it’s beyond just bigots spewing hate but also foreign governments influencing people. For example in Germany a lot of far right AFD talking points has obvious roots in russian media propaganda. And I will not pretend that I have any kind of answer but I feel like it has to go deeper than trying to regulate specific cases of speech.