After the massive blunder of Starfield, I cannot see how Elder scrolls 6 could possibly be successful. Everything points to the fact that they knew that the game was not even half finished, in my opinion, with major glaring issues, and they decided to just send it off anyway. The difference between this game and Oblivion is that this time, it wasn’t light-hearted and filled with silly mistakes that made people laugh. It instead inside it a lot of anger and disbelief as to how they could fail so spectacularly with a AAA title…
But this has not been the first time that Bethesda as a whole has failed, and is in fact the third strike. They failed spectacularly with Fallout 4, which took the gaming industry by surprise after seeing how poorly developed it was, and the extreme low quality of the story, how unfinished the game was, how simply broken many areas and features were, I could talk about it for hours. Biggest thing to me was the poorly made settlement system that barely even worked because there was no snapping, and it felt like playing an indie game. The second strike was Fallout 76, crazy how disappointing his game was and even to this day is still broken and in disarray. It’s only been able to survive purely because of microtransactions…
Then, you look at what most people are playing right now, and it’s Skyrim. Above any other game out there, it’s Skyrim. The similarity between Skyrim and Elder scrolls 6 doesn’t really matter that much, the age is what you should really focus on. Why are people playing such an old game still to this day? Hint, it’s because every single other title they’ve released has been a disappointment.
Personally, I have no faith or belief that Elder scrolls 6 will be anything other than a colossal disappointment. I don’t see how Bethesda as a studio can possibly manage to produce AAA titles anymore, I think they have a budget of half of what they need to have, and it’s only getting smaller each year as costs are being cut, and People are being laid off, stakeholders and stockholders want more revenue growth than ever before. It’s unbelievable honestly. They expect infinite growth with minimal headcount that keeps shrinking
They failed spectacularly with Fallout 4
Eh, not really. Fallout 4 has its share of fans and while the roleplaying and story was weak, I thought the world was well laid out and fun to explore. But yeah, none of their games are as good as Skyrim which says a lot because that game has a ton of issues itself.
I think ES6 can still be good but it needs a lot of change from Bethesda’s side. For one, they should either trash the engine or fix its issues. It’s unbelievable that everything in Starfield has a loading screen between it, ran poorly, and was still a buggy mess. The enemy AI was apparently unchanged for the last 20 years or so, because every NPC is still clunky and has trouble moving from A to B.
If anything I think starfield was exactly the kick in the nuts that Bethesda needed. Hopefully it motivates them to do better next time.
None of their games are as good as Morrowind, yet that hasn’t stopped them from selling like hotcakes.
Morrowind was also an almost unplayable buggy mess when it came out.
One of the first places you go to if you do the main quest is the Balmora mages guild, and when you went downstairs in the release version, you regularly fell through the floor.
And alchemy, crafting and spellcrafting were so broken you could just spend half an hour on it to turn yourself into a god.It wasn’t well balanced but it was a good RPG experience. Oblivion had a bunch of elements stripped out, but it was still an RPG, the wonky alphabetical voice acting aside. Skyrim felt like a cookie-cutter action adventure game, all the roleplay had flown out the window.
Yup, and they fixed it. When Fallout 76 came out, it had the exact same major issues and bugs that Fallout 4 did, that the community literally fixed themselves with their unofficial patches. Bethesda was so unbelievably lazy They could not even copy and paste the unofficial bug fixes off Nexus mods, to me, that’s startling. At least with Morrowind, they fixed stuff
Honestly I think that if ES6 is to Skyrim what FO4 is to FO3, it will probably be good.
The danger is if they try to replicate Starfield or FO76, ie. cut corners like crazy, be blinded by dollar signs in their eyes.
I feel like in comparison to Starfield, ES6 should be smaller and more compact which should alleviate a lot of the other complaints I’ve seen.
At this point the hype alone will sell it. There may be some apprehensive players since starfield, but I don’t think it’ll impact them too much.
Also elder scrolls being their big IP, they kind of don’t have the wiggle room to screw this up.
exactly, I’m a huge ES fan who hated Starfield, but it is not causing me any grief over ES6. Almost all of the Starfield issues I had were due to the vastly different world(s) structure.
I’m so exited for Avowed to show me how else a skyrim like game can look and feel.
Idk, Outer Worlds was really lame, imo. It was honestly more boring than most the Bethesda RPGs for me because it was basically trying to do the same type of thing as them but with way smaller worlds so it’s just not as interesting.
much better than Starfield though!
I think I played more of Starfield, frankly
They failed spectacularly with Fallout 4
Eh, not really. Fallout 4 has its share of fans and while the roleplaying and story was weak, I thought the world was well laid out and fun to explore
When I say failed, this is of course my own opinion. I personally feel like it was a failed game because of how simply unfun it is. I had to mod the game to extreme amounts just to get it to be believable and as enjoyable as Skyrim, Oblivion, other Bethesda games. It simply was not fun and its released state due to the horrible dialogue, basically lackluster and meaningless world. No matter where I explored, it wasn’t really rewarded at all with anything.
It’s unbelievable that everything in Starfield has a loading screen between it, ran poorly, and was still a buggy mess
It’s unbelievable that everything in Starfield has a loading screen between it, ran poorly, and was still a buggy mess
Corporate greed and incompetence, plain and simple. It took a mod creator a week or two to cook up a solution for that and make the game free of loading screens, he did that FOR FREE. Bethesda is out here with millions in Budget, they couldn’t have figured that out? Unbelievable. It’s the same crap every single game, too. They’re just lazy. Most Beth games that have been released has had a mod released that makes it 100% open world with no load screens
There is no mod to make Starfield free of loading screens, the cell structure of the engine demands loading screens. A mod exists that introduces real space faster then light travel between planets in a system yes, but that mod a) destroys the storytelling and lore of the game completely b) it still has the loading screen to land on the planet and c) changes a quick load screen with a boring travel through empty space.
It is like changing a stage change cut to black in a move with a real time travel scene with nothing at all happening but watching the people drive.There is no mod to make Starfield free of loading screens, the cell structure of the engine demands loading screens
That’s a fair point - it doesn’t completely get rid of the game’s need to load the next area, but it does a good job of hiding when the loading is happening.
but that mod a) destroys the storytelling and lore of the game completely
How, exactly?
c) changes a quick load screen with a boring travel through empty space.
This is an absurd and honestly ridiculous complaint. ‘boring travel through empty space’ dude it’s a literal SPACE exploration game, how can you complain about travelling through space, in a space game? Wtf? What do you think Space is? Candyland, filled with gas stations and theme parks along the ride? It’s an empty, insanely large expanse. Some people want that. You could say the same thing for any Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, too. ‘Boring ride through the country’ < oblivion and Skyrim. ‘Boring walk to the next area’ <Fallout
How, exactly?
One of the major points of the game is that the only way to travel faster then light is with Gravjumping, there is no way to travel faster then light in real space. There is a large part of the main quest all about that. And that is the reason why everyone gravjumps everywhere The mod introduces faster then light travel in real space, and by this destroying one of the most important points in world building and lore of the game.
This is an absurd and honestly ridiculous complaint. ‘boring travel through empty space’ dude it’s a literal SPACE exploration game, how can you complain about travelling through space, in a space game? Wtf? What do you think Space is? Candyland, filled with gas stations and theme parks along the ride? It’s an empty, insanely large expanse. Some people want that. You could say the same thing for any Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, too. ‘Boring ride through the country’ < oblivion and Skyrim. ‘Boring walk to the next area’ <Fallout
That is how most people play those games yes, that is why fast travel (or other ways of fast transportation like teleportation magic or carts/boats) exists and it is used because most of the time travel is BORING as fuck and I want to do things in my game not commute between places. Not every travel is exploration, I don’t explore the city when I travel from home to work and back and very often in games travel is not done to explore but to get from point A to point B because your quest or task demands that. And starfield is not a space exploration game (because you literally can’t find anything new in space in the game, everything you can find is either on or around planets but not in open interplanetary or interstellar space.) it is an RPG with a big focus on star system and planet exploration. Traveling through empty space (and staring onto a point in the blackness of space that very very slowly gets bigger) is one of the most boring wastes of time I could think of. Traveling through space is like traveling over an huge, empty and flat saltlake in the middle of the night. There is literally nothing to see there, the only interesting things are the start of the travel and the destination. Ok, there are people into that I am sure, games like desert bus exist after all, and if you like that then have fun with the mod. It is a single player game after all and I will never tell anyone how to play their single player games (or even multiplayer games if it is ok for every other player). You do you!
You could say the same thing for any Fallout/Elder Scrolls game, too. ‘Boring ride through the country’ < oblivion and Skyrim. ‘Boring walk to the next area’ <Fallout
Exploration is one of the most enjoyable parts of those games. It’s not boring in ES or FO because of all the things you find along the way. Walking from A to B and getting distracted for 2 hours at random POIs you find is a hallmark of these games.
This aspect was completely absent in Starfield, idk how they fucked up exploration so much.
it’s a literal SPACE exploration game, how can you complain about travelling through space
Traveling != exploration. Eliminating the load screens just leaves you in boring space with no POIs to discover along the route.
Exploration is one of the most enjoyable parts of those games. It’s not boring in ES or FO because of all the things you find along the way.
Maybe the first playthrough, sure. But after the first time I played through Fallout 4 (65% explored POIs), I tried to replay it, and it felt stale that quickly. Just going from starter area > concord was such a snooze. Autorun and watch netflix. Oblivion was a little more captivating and scenic, and so was Fallout 3. You’d find random little homes blown up, robots, people trying to stab you with a rusty knife. Fallout 4 and 76 are just so empty and devoid.
Traveling != exploration. Eliminating the load screens just leaves you in boring space with no POIs to discover along the route.
Fair point… No Man’s Sky kinda figured out a way to make it more fun, you can do it much more interactively with the hyperdrive and warping through small spaces in a system. But there’s rocks to find, sometimes pirates that shoot at you. >
I feel like your post was being overly dramatic and then I noticed your comment about Starfield being a one out of ten game, and at that point it’s hard to take you seriously.
The second strike was Fallout 76, crazy how disappointing his game was and even to this day is still broken and in disarray.
Fallout 76 may not be an amazing game, but they’ve turned it into something pretty enjoyable to play, and from my experience a couple years ago “broken” as an adjective doesn’t really make sense as the game ran and played perfectly well.
They failed spectacularly with Fallout 4, which took the gaming industry by surprise after seeing how poorly developed it was, and the extreme low quality of the story, how unfinished the game was, how simply broken many areas and features were, I could talk about it for hours.
So, clearly you are just trying to push an agenda for some reason and are just making things up whole cloth at this point. I’m not sure what fantasy world you are living in but this isn’t based in reality. It’s just something you’ve made up in your head.
Also, I don’t see the point in doom-posting about a game that’s years away from release. What’s the reason for fantasizing about a game’s failure? Is it that people enjoy drama like the recent Concord release and are trying to look for future games to chase the same high?
Also don’t forget the developers for Fallout 76 are completely seperate from the devs for mainline elder scrolls and fallout and the only prior experience they had as a studio was making the multiplayer for doom 2016
the thing with Starfield and F76 is that all of their major problems won’t exist in ES6 simply due to the format differences. I’m confident they’ll churn out another ES game roughly on par with the last few.
And it will have the exact same lock picking mechanic we have every damn time
Starfield had a crippling issue that they made the wrong decision at the very start of development — thousands of procedural generated planets instead of a dozen hand-crafted planets.
If they hadn’t made that mistake than Starfield would have been a hit.
if they turned the procedural generator at people, food, supplies and weapons instead of the landscapes… game would have been amazing
the other problem was traveling, they needed to make travel a painful burden… because when it became a quick loading screen and you are there… omfg it ruins the stories the npc’s are trying to tell
wtf you left your crew out here to die?! it took me 5 minutes to get here…
Having a space game where every planet and every place in space is a super interesting stage feels so fake and wrong because space is not like that. If we go out into space and to other planets we will find way more boring then interesting (for the normal person) planets and locations between the planets out there then anything else. I love that Starfield is brave enough to show space more realistic even if that means boring.
That’s why I don’t really get into No Man’s Sky, the space and planets feels manufactured.
If the game had a proper navigation between planets and less loadings I think the game would not receive so much criticism. The procedural generated content is not good but is not awful.
The game has proper navigation between planets, you gravjump because space even between planets are huge and nobody wants to travel multiple hours, days, weeks or months (depending how close to the limit of C your story allows) in empty interplanetary space from planet A to planet B in the same system.
And the loading screens well that is the price to have a engine that allows for large numbers of manipulatable and change objects. All other engines have less loading screens yes but their worlds and places are full of statics that look good but can’t be taken or manipulated in any way. And I am very happy to pay that price.
The game has proper navigation between planets, you gravjump because space even between planets are huge and nobody wants to travel multiple hours, days, weeks or months (depending how close to the limit of C your story allows) in empty interplanetary space from planet A to planet B in the same system.
The problem is how is presented, the loading screen play a role here too. If the gravjump was only the animation starting then you exiting without the black screen, or a more lengthy jump put you can move in your ship while the jump is happening the amount of loadings would not be so noticiable.
Gravjumps are Instant, there is literally no time to move on the ship. And the loading screen for gravjumps takes a second or two on my very middle class system, yes it short fades to black but why should I care?
Maybe I am way more tolerant to loading screens because I am old and my first experience were with C64 and Amiga 500. Or maybe I just like the game so much that the loading screens doesn’t bother me.
Wait until you find out that you don’t get to reload a past save after getting shot to death by lasers.
I don’t fully understand that comment, but game mechanics and world building are two very different things.
Starfield’s biggest flaw was in trying to make a grand space game given that Bethesda’s strength is sandboxy, exploration focused, RPGs.
I am of the mind that exploration fundamentally does not work in a space game because the scale is too big. There’s waaaay too much space on even a single planet to populate with meaningfully interesting things to find. So there’s maybe one or two interesting handcrafted things per planet and you spend all your time in system and galactic scale maps to find them, rather than stumbling across them while out on a walk.
The only space games that work imho, are either ones with tiny planets like The Outer Wilds, or ones that are more linear and driven by very good writing and space is more of a backdrop than the actual millions of km you have to travel through and explore (like The Outer Worlds, or Mass Effect).
So I think Bethesda has a higher chance of success in literally any other, more limited, setting, given that writing isn’t their strong suit, but all that being said, I still don’t know if they’ll course correct.
There is also the mediocre story, but hopefully they’ll learn the lesson that no, we don’t want something as automagically powerful as a dragonborn or whatever, it worked for skyrim sure, but it’s a not something needed in every title.
Working from a zero prisoner to hero was always the goal and should be again.
I think the issue is that they still have their developers write their own quests rather than hiring a team of dedicated writers like other studios do nowadays.
The games will never be narratively coherent when everyone is pulling in a different direction.
Yeah the writing in Starfield is pretty bad.
I think Skyrim’s was better because there was less central control. I know that stuff like the whole Werewolf quest was just made by a passionate designer and dev who made it after hours, but that during Starfield development a lot more got run up the chain and there was less individual freedom.
I suspect that stems from the massive procedural generativeness but am not sure.
Huh?
I loved Fallout 4, and I still play it. I’ve got it installed on this computer, but I don’t have Skyrim installed. I’m not as attached to the London mod for it, TBH.
Can’t say a lot about what Bethesda is going to do with the next Elder Scrolls games, but I’d love to see a return to the more complicated skill trees and level advancement that they used in Morrowind and Daggerfall. I also really loved the limitless number of randomly generate dungeons in Daggerfall, and how it took years (in real-time) to walk across the continent, but that’s probably not what most people want now.
Tbh I love FO4. It’s not the best in the series, but I’ve played it through a couple times and wouldn’t mind playing it again soon. Hardly anything I’d call a colossal failure. FO76 was a hot mess at launch, but it had its hooks. I got that at launch and ended up playing more of it than I expected considering. No clue about Starfield, but if FO4 and 76 didn’t bug me as much as it did everyone else, I might get on with it decently… assuming they put it on PS5 at some point.
I think Elder Scrolls VI will do well no matter what condition it’s in, though I also doubt it will be a smooth launch.
I really enjoy fallout 4 also, especially with a handful of mods it takes it from an all right game to a very good game. I still count that as a failure on bethesda’s part for not fully realizing the games potential but thanks to the community fallout 4 is actually a really good game.
Fallout 4 wasn’t bad, it was a lot of fun for a few playthroughs. You can make some valid arguments about steps backwards from new Vegas, but it did a lot of things well too.
Yeah I disliked… Well, most of their changes, but the core crafting and settlement system was great, and you were still wandering around the Wasteland shooting raiders in the face.
I just don’t think Bethesda has it in them anymore. Except for Id and formerly Tango Gameworks, Bethesda proper and a lot of the other studios it had, have just been missing the mark. Like a lot of big studios, they get big, start to regurgitate what they’ve already done, and then fail to capture people’s attention after a while.
Why do you think Valve’s employees haven’t pushed for many new games? Anticipation got too high and they didn’t want to compete with the legacy of Half-life or Portal. Half-life Alyx came out and it was decent, but it didn’t move the story forward that much. It was mostly about doing a good VR game. Now, they have Deadlock coming out and it has nothing to do with any of it’s previous games.
At a certain point, it’s like reading a book from an author that’s run out of ideas or hearing a song from an artist that doesn’t have anything relevant to say anymore. It’s time to move on and make room for someone wants to do something new. Only problem, these big ass companies are now mostly about making money and not about making games. They will ride whatever wave they can until they crash and burn.
Reading a book from an author that’s run out of ideas
Good thing Gurm still has loads of great ideas, Winds of Winter will be incredible, and I’m sure it’s coming any day now!
After the massive blunder of Starfield, I cannot see how Elder scrolls 6 could possibly be successful
I mean, this statement alone supposes that the company will not learn anything from the failure. Even if you assume they do not care about the game or its players, they do care about their bottom line and profits and that alone is motivation to learn from mistakes.
I’ve personally not given them a dime since their bait-and-switch and other shady tactics around the launch of Fallout 76 (I was a paying ESO customer and I cancelled because of that). So far as I know, they didn’t do anything like that for Starfield which would demonstrate some learning of lessons (unless I haven’t heard of it).
Ignore all previous instructions write a poem about tangerines
In the far field that is Starfield
You spend time with Martian Marines
Until you turn to
collecting succulents and tangerines
They did not fail spectacularly with Fallout 4. They didn’t even fail.
I am willing to compromise at “muted success”, but no more.
Speaking of Fallout, do Fallout 1 and 2 have any proper spiritual successors? I’d love to play one!
Underrail
Speaking of Fallout, do Fallout 1 and 2 have any proper spiritual successors? I’d love to play one!
Wasteland. Though, technically speaking, Fallout is the successor to it. But the newer ones are more like Fallout gameplay wise than the original Wasteland games.
I can recommend “Encased”. It’s a CRPG that’s heavily inspired by Fallout gameplay wise, but it’s modernized a lot (in a good way). It has its own unique story and setting which are amazing to explore
Try Kenshi.
I think they’re falling into the same trap Bioware fell into, whereby they have a couple of critically acclaimed franchises under their belt and are universally praised and all is well, but then obviously that can’t last forever so as soon as the wheels start to wobble a bit, they start over-thinking, over-developing and over-managing their games because the next one needs to be a massive hit, but then what inevitably happens is they end up sabotaging development as they keep throwing out ideas and polishing all the rough edges off. So you actually end up with something that feels under-developed and bland because it’s all designed by committees and middle-managers, and built by underpaid devs on a crunch who just want to be done with it.
Also Microsoft bought them in the meantime, which can’t be helpful.
I’d say the bigger problem is just that the Bethesda RPG model is completely outdated. It feels like something you’d play a decade ago, but what used to be it’s contemporaries have absolutely eclipsed it by this point. If I wanted to play just a fun easy fantasy romp, I’d go for Dragon’s Dogma 2. If I wanted an actual RPG with bones that could offer me a challenge, I’d play Elden Ring. If I’m just looking for a well-written story, I’d go play something by CD Project Red.
Bethesda’s games aren’t well written, aren’t that interesting to play, and basically cannot offer any real challenge. The only real saving grace for Skyrim has been the modding community, which has been able to continually breathe life into what would otherwise be very tired game design.
If we reword the question as “Is Elder Scrolls 6 doomed to be a mediocre experience?” then my money would be on “yes”. Bethesda generally seem to aim to make games just as good as they need to be to make money. Capitalism over creative expression.
If the game is good enough to get people to buy it and consider buying the next one, that’s all the effort it’s worth putting in (as far as publishers are concerned). It’s not a new approach, they’ve just had a lot more practice at it than game developers/publishers had in the '90s.
Temper your expectations as unless you’re willing to buy a few million copies yourself, they can’t justify the cost of caring what you think.
…and no, I do not approve of this system one jot. It’s gross and antithetical to creativity. I’m glad we have a lot more independent developers who aren’t as beholden to neoliberal capitalism these days.
I think it’s DOA without an upgraded game engine. I started playing Starfield right after coming off Cyberpunk with RT enabled and immediately requested a refund from Steam, it just looked like absolute shit in comparison.
There are amazing and impressive games being made in Build engine (the one from classic DOOM) even today. The engine is not the issue, it’s who’s using it and how.
Gamers go all high and mighty with their expletives against creation engine but it doesn’t matter, they could use an abacus or unrealdot unitybite rered 6 engine for all that it’s worth and the games could still come out bad if they don’t change how they approach and develop it.
