The only issue I have is the last part. Don’t wait four years to talk about whatever the issues are, you have representatives even in the outgoing administration and congress right now to contact. By all means vote for the right people to make sure you can still do that after the election without fear of retaliation, but don’t vote and then complain fours years later nothing was done if you haven’t reached out during that time frame.
I’m not posting a Snopes link or whatever, but it was Mussolini who allegedly got the trains running on time, and he didn’t anyway. Improvements to the Italian rail system were begun under the previous government, and actually the trains weren’t particularly punctual under his regime anyway.
Fuck that, let’s talk about the trains in February. That’s the problem…too many of us are petulant fucking children who keep waiting until the night before it’s due to do our damned homework. Be better.
First of all, Trump is the most incompetent person to ever set foot in the white house. He couldn’t make the trains run on time or he needed them to get away from a lawsuit. Second, Harris is going to be a great president if she is elected. Let’s just hope she is.
What you have to do in the us: bitch for 3 years about all your problems, then shut up for a year so the party that wants to genocide you doesnt get elected, and then you can start your bitching about everyday problems again. Its very sad that these two things occupy the same space.
Two-party systems unfortunately always settle into this problem.
Definitely vote for Kamala now, but remember that real change begins at the local level - try to support policies and candidates who approve of ranked choice voting.
For anyone being asked to provide evidence or sources that “Orange Man Bad”, the latest Some More News episode has you covered:
Fuck the trains. Let’s talk about the genocide.
Right I’m sure people are refusing to vote Harris over trains and not literal genocide lol
deep sigh
- There are two choices in the United States 2024 election. No third party stands a ghost of a chance of winning. No, not even if the 30,000 people you can reach on Lemmy all vote for Timothy Greenparty.
- A Trump victory in 2024 would not only be just as bad if not worse for the citizens of Gaza than Harris would (Harris has at least said she wants Israel to stop. Trump wants them to finish the job), but would also pose an existential threat to a large number of vulnerable Americans (trans people, immigrants, women seeking abortions).
- Given the margins of victory in 2016 and 2020, Kamala might not win if leftists don’t vote for her.
- Snoozing fascism for four years is better than inviting it through the door now, and buys us time to build our defenses for when it comes back.
- Regardless of whether you do anything else to fight fascism or not, if you don’t vote, or you vote third party, you raise the chances that a Hitler admirer will enter the white house.
I’d like to focus my counterargument. Which of these statements do you disagree with?
Wait, Trump is promising to make the trains run on schedule too?
Is there anything he won’t copy?
Quoþ ð Tankies, “BUT DEMS SAME ÐO!”
4 years later: “THIS election is super important. We’ll talk about the trains in another 4 years.”
Haha! Yeah, fuck lgbtq people, disabled people, people on medicare, black people, hispanic people, non-christians, and the poor. Put them in camps. They just bitch and moan anyway. I’m sure there are other people calling this a dangerous election who just say it every year, stuff them in the camps too! We gotta make them trains run on time!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The argument for Trump isn’t that he’ll make the trains run on time. He’s more like the guy who’ll shut down the trains and sell them for scrap.
Trump is the guy you vote for because he hates the same people you hate.
We’re here because people keep supporting a broken system. We keep getting elections with gerrymandering and candidates that don’t represent people because people are unwilling to take action outside of them or even exercise that power in its most basic form. Even if you maintain that things are genuinely good when Democrats win (we’ll circle back on that one), it’s such a brittle system. Any progress that has been made can be wiped out every few years due to elections which have been gerrymandered to create the 50/50 coin-flip when the actual population doesn’t support the right at nearly that rate. Plus, because of the messed up process of supreme court appointments, we sometimes lose rights even when Democrats are in office because of a fundamentally undemocratic institution. You could argue that’s all the more reason to have voted against Republicans in the past and why we should vote against them now, but once again: In a system that is supposedly based on constitutional protections, why are our rights contingent on the random time an old judge kicks the bucket? Or the supposedly illegal actions of a president?
Because there’s nothing to actually stop any of it. Rights are hard to establish and enforce and really easy to be taken away or ignored. Republicans will “break the rules” and then Democrats will decide to be bound by not only the rules their “opponents” won’t follow, but by the new rules that come out of their actions. If you truly believe your opponents are fascists, and you’re genuinely opposed to that, then nothing should be off the table for resisting them. At the tamest end of things the least they could have tried to do would be to break the power of the court or anti-majoritarian rules in the legislature. But again, if rules don’t matter to fascists, you should be willing to go way further than that to stop them. Instead, the “#resistance” under Trump largely consisted of tweets, protest signs, and a call to vote differently in 2-4 years while simultaneously questioning if we’d even have an election to vote in. If Trump wins are liberals going to get out there and do something about it? Are they going to storm the capital to boot out the fascists? Fight cops and feds from taking away minorities? No. That’s way too “uncivil” for them. We’re just gonna have to vote harder next time!
And if only all we had to talk about were the trains being on time!
Circling back to how things are under Democrats: Sure, maybe they’re a bit nicer to minorities publicly, but we still get:
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An ever expanding military, police, and surveillance state. Bush might have started the Iraq/Afghanistan wars and enacted the Patriot act, but Obama continued the wars, including the torture and indefinite detention he said he’d end. We also learned about the NSA’s mass surveillance program under Obama and when confronted with the public outcry about an assault on our fundamental rights or the war crimes being committed by the military, he chose to go after whistleblowers instead of doing anything about it. Since then has ANY president or major presidential candidate even talked about the NSA or given any indication that they’d cut back on surveillance or imperialism? In my lifetime over 3 Democratic and 2 Republican administrations, the military budget has tripped. And of course support for Israel’s genocide has continued with little more than hand wringing and empty promises.
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Anti-immigration policies continued under Obama and Biden. Biden in particular continued the detention centers and even allowed for the wall to keep being built.
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Climate legislation that isn’t good enough to meet the existential threat posed by the problem. Far from being “something is better than nothing,” these compromise positions obstruct efforts to implement the necessary changes. Plus whatever “advancements” are put in place tend to be fairly temporary in nature. A regulation can be easily overturned by a future administration or court. It’s a lot harder to go around destroying public transportation and clean energy infrastructure after it’s already been built. We are facing a global crisis and the system is going to get us all killed eventually, and poorer countries even sooner.
There are a lot of people who are hurt by US capitalism and imperialism even under Democratic administrations. It’s a decision to not value those people. And it’s not even like they’re always different people. The surveillance state hurts everyone, but in particular it makes it easier for the government to target undesirable groups like immigrants, LGBT people, or say, women who want to get an abortion. There are certainly LGBT people, disable people, women, PoCs, etc amongst those the US has bombed, sanctioned, or caused to live in chaos after a coup. Lack of adequate healthcare means that accessing abortions or gender affirming care harder even if they are completely legal.
But don’t worry, just vote for the Democrat then push them to the left! By… uh… holding up signs? Making tweets? You definitely need to unconditionally vote for them again next time, so you can’t pressure them that way.
It’s ok, next election we’ll talk about ~the trains~ the military, surveillance state, healthcare, the environment, etc.
dun dun dun, dun
“Wow, that’s a lot of words.”
dun dun dun, dun
“Shame I’m not gonna read any of em .”
Anyway, all joking aside… This system is problematic and needs to be worked on. But I promise you the fix is not “abandon our most vulnerable citizens and our sovereignty for my mental picture of a utopia”.
No. Clearly the solution is to continue to abandon anyone outside the US because they don’t matter. /s
But more directly: HOW are you going to work on it? Who is gonna do that? The capitalist/imperialist who you’ve pledged your vote to unconditionally?
No. Clearly the solution is to continue to abandon anyone outside the US because they don’t matter. /s
Good to know our American citizens mean fuck-all to you then.
But more directly: HOW are you going to work on it? Who is gonna do that? The capitalist/imperialist who you’ve pledged your vote to unconditionally?
It’s not unconditional. If you root yourself in reality for a few minutes, you’ll see we have three choices:
- Mask-off Fascism
- Imperialism/Neoliberalism that appears to at least kinda court progressives.
- Burn it all down, fucking the most amount of people in the process.
Which are you picking? I don’t see any actionable grand solutions or saints coming from you and your ilk. I do not have answers on how to fix it, and I doubt :checks watch: 6 days before the election is enough time to figure it out.
To be abundantly clear, I do not like these choices. None of them. The only one I can stomach is the second one, and there does not appear to be any viable alternatives right now.
Fucking over people outside of the US is a short term strategy that means ever more people are waiting for a chance to take the US down.
Don’t expect all the vassal nations to come to the US’s aid, because the more bridges get burnt and the more the US looks like a hypocritical bully the more the fall will hurt when it comes.
It’s almost like the only way the world makes sense is to assume that both parties are actually wings of the same party
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The lack of an /s in your comment worries me, especially since the entire conversation is about the fact that there are those among us who say what you just said with no hint of sarcasm.
Then I guess a bit of critical thinking will need to be applied. My comment was very obvious sarcasm.
Are you worried because someone might think me, a trans woman, is advocating for the internment of everyone who is not a white cishetero male Christian nationalist in favor of trains running in time? Cause… Me too honestly.
I get that the state of the US is abysmal, but if anyone is taking that comment seriously I hope they choke on a shotgun. /srs
The mistake is thinkkng that critical thinking is a common reaction these days.
There are latinos who are supporting trump. Trump is the same guy who already seperated families, detained them in what ammounts to essentially a metal box in the Texas heat, without release, or water, until they died. Children seperated from families, still to this day not reunited, some of which never will be, because some died.
That’s not some hyperbole “this could happen” dramatic statement. I’m saying 2016-2020 he already DID do these things, and bragged about doing them. He bragged about killing people because they were latino.
There are latino trump voters and supporters in 2024. So, no. I don’t assume everyone will automatically know your comment was dripping in sarcasm, I don’t assume anyone will know your life story, and I don’t assume everyone will vote in their best interests. People play politics like sports teams these days.
Ask me more about my life story! So far you have this:
- I’m a trans woman.
- I engage with trolls.
- I like sarcasm a lot.
As for your sports team context, if I played this like sports, I’d turn the TV off. Unfortunately, I was kidnapped and placed on the field in a cage, and if one side wins I get shot. The other side wins and I get to hang out in the cage some more. There’s a small contingency in the crowd calling to burn the stadium down with everyone on the field (including me) and half of the crowd going down with it. /m
Oh, also, apologies about missing all of the tone tags. /gen
Then I guess a bit of critical thinking will need to be applied. My comment was very obvious sarcasm.
/nbr, /ay but also /nay
Are you worried because someone might think me, a trans woman, is advocating for the internment of everyone who is not a white cishetero male Christian nationalist in favor of trains running in time? Cause… Me too honestly.
/gen
I get that the state of the US is abysmal, but if anyone is taking that comment seriously I hope they choke on a shotgun. /srs
/nay
Do you honestly think people would take my first comment seriously? /gen A simple perusal of my post history shows how much I fucking loathe Trump and republicans and I’m starting to get sick of hearing solutions to our government that amount to “stop compromising and burn it to the ground” without any regard for the consequences or reality. /lh
EDIT: That last portion after my question was /nay, just to be clear. There’s others in these comments who are basically saying that because everything sucks or kinda sucks we need to end it, even if it hurts other people. /gen
You can actually hold protests about the trains, and talk about them immediately after the election…
…and you’ll be doing so with someone who is slightly more likely to be concerned with their image, and hence slightly more likely to listen.
But only if you get out and vote in that direction. If you don’t vote - there may be a chance you just never get to talk about the trains again. Or even that talking about them is seen as illegal criticism of the state.
That’s the nature of fascism, you can’t be sure of what freedoms will be taken from you.
…and you’ll be doing so with someone who is slightly more likely to be concerned with their image, and hence slightly more likely to listen.
Why would they be concerned with their image if people are going to vote for them anyway? We have a candidate who supports literal genocide and that’s not bad enough for people to do something. What exactly, precisely, practically, is the mechanism for holding a politician accountable when you will always vote for them and won’t take any actions outside the electoral system?
„We can vote third party when we fix this imminent threat”.
I keep seeing the trump hitler analogy but where’s the actual evidance. I did also see a yt vid of a holocaust survivor saying that the trump hitler analogy is offensive and wrong so just kinda seems like propaganda ngl.
Project 2025 literally promises to put people in concentration camps wtf do you mean “where’s the actual evidence”
It only mentions him by name over 300 times.
Didnt trump claim he has nothing to do with project 2025?
Except many of the people who wrote it work on his campaign. Nothing to do with it is a lie, because he’s hired them.
One of the main guys is his running mate.
I think the best example is his rhetoric regarding immigrants. Even if you ignore the “poisoning the blood” comments practically being a 1:1 of Hitler’s rhetoric, the idea of deportating an increasingly longer list of people (including his political opponents) would require opening up detention camps to indefinitely detain them since it’s unclear where you even would deport most of them to.
While he isn’t explicitly sending said detainees to the ovens, the parallels to pre-war Hitler are way more founded than back in 2008 GOP calling Obama Hitler for… some reason.
Deporting illegal immigrants is literally hitler hey? Look i dont like what he stands for but perhaps it a little extreme to compare deporting illegal immigrants to murdering 6million people.
Hitler also said a lot about how every (german) man deserves a family, land, a house, and a job which is the same thing that practically every politician ever has promised.
Did I say illegal immigrants? He’s threatened to deport way more than that, including legal immigrants, trans kids, political opponents, and more. Deporting political opponents doesn’t even make sense unless he’s really just saying he wants to detain them. Even if it’s a lie, scapegoating minority groups is a solid fascist tactic.
Has he any evidance of these claims? You are scapegoating minority groups right now. By scapegoating the right wing extremists to get people to vote for the person u want.
Lol.
Maybe you should actually learn what happened in Germany in the years leading up to those 6 million people being murdered. It’s not like all of Germany woke up one day and voted to start gassing Jews. It started with rhetoric exactly like what’s spewing out of Trump’s mouth these days.
Blame the ‘other’ for all your troubles. Then dehumanize the other (we are here). Then start rounding them up.
Do we have to wait until he puts the first person in an oven to do anything about it? That’s how his supporters (you) seem to think. But we’re not stupid. Some of us actually learned from history.
The evidence is up your ass, where you pull all of your opinions from.
Well this isnt a good faith engagement of ideas this is just i have no argument and i must scream.
Trump has praised Hitler multiple times and is clearly a fascist. It makes sense that people compare him to Hitler, given the latter is the defacto example of extreme fascism.
The fact you made the comment that you made on this post tells me “good faith argument” isn’t in your repertoire.
Don’t feed the walrus
But it’s fun and he keeps clapping his little flippers!!!
(Also you right)
U know when someone asks for evidance they dont expect a vague he has done x i claim it to be true and he is clearly self evidently by my opinion of the persuasion i claim. Ur opinion is not evidance its ur subjective view of the world.
Also continuing to insult me still isnt good faith.
You just asked where’s ð evidence ð kids in cages guy might be on ð hitler spectrum and ðen got pissy people didn’t assume you were asking a good faiþ question.
I generally disdain google is your friend comments, but bro, use some common sense.
There were forced hysterectomies women were made to undergo in ICE custody. His supporters claim crime is linked to race, rather than poverty/alienation/neglect. Both attacked trans people and education around them. Both supported street thugs like The Proud Boys and other rightwing groups (the ones that Trump told to “stand by” with violence, or the ones he said “were fine people”). Both were supported by a coalition of rightwing racists, like those who turned up to the Unite The Right Rally and the Tiki torch rally. Both pushed conspiracy theories, and specifically ideas around “Cultural Marxism/Bolshevism”. Both spread misinformation and targeted the safety of their opponents “the traitorous left”. Both claimed to have victories they didn’t actually win. Both used executive orders to skirt democratic processes. Both won elections then rigged elections. Both had a sense of how to do propaganda. Both were sexual deviants with history of attraction to young girls. Both found support among wealthy business owners who did so for financial motives. Both praised and made alliances with other fascists and Authoritarians.
Trump’s ex-wife even said he kept a book of Hitler’s speeches on his bedside table, she said that before he ever ran for office.
There were forced historectomies women were made to undergo in ICE custody.
This is malinfornation and false1
His supporters claim crime is linked to race, rather than poverty/alienation/neglect.
What some of ur supporters may claim means nothing here is a hypothetical example. “Im a kamala harris supporter and i think crime is purly because of race and we should execute all non white people” anyone can say that doesnt mean thats kamala harris supports it. Also race is statistically correlated with crime so it is linked just not causationaly so technically they are correct.
Both attacked trans people and education around them. Both supported street thugs like The Proud Boys and other rightwing groups (the ones that Trump told to “stand by” with violence, or the ones he said “were fine people”). Both were supported by a coalition of rightwing racists, like those who turned up to the Unite The Right Rally and the Tiki torch rally. Both pushed conspiracy theories, and specifically ideas around “Cultural Marxism/Bolshevism”.
Anyone can make a venn diagram of Hitlers beliefs and anyone else and end up with a list just as long as this.
Both spread misinformation and targetted the safety of their opponents “the traitorous left”.
When has trump targeted the safety of the traitorous left opponents. Who? U spread misinformation with ur claim about mass historectomies so i guess ur hitler.
Both claimed to have victories they didn’t actually win.
“We beat medicare” - president biden
Did we really?
Both used executive orders to skirt democratic processes. Both won elections then rigged elections.
How does utilising an executive order put in place for the executive within a democratic system constitute skirting a democratic purpose? Do the democrads do primaries cos how did kamala end up the nominated? How has trump rigged this election?
Both had a sense of how to do propaganda. Both were sexual deviants with history of attraction to young girls. Both found support among wealthy business owners who did so for financial motives. Both praised and made alliances with other fascists and Authoritarians.
This described almost every single politician in the history of politicians.
Trump’s ex-wife even said he kept a book of Hitler’s speeches on his bedside table, she said that before he ever ran for office.
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Anyone can make a venn diagram of Hitlers beliefs and anyone else and end up with a list just as long as this.
Okay, do so with Hitler and Kamala Harris.
Sure
Concept Kamala Harris’ Supporting Actions Adolf Hitler’s Supporting Actions Gun Control Proposed stricter gun control regulations in the US;Advocated for a ban on assault-style rifles. Implemented the 1938 German Weapons Act, which regulated private gun ownership;Prohibited Jews from owning guns. Social Welfare Supported programs like unemployment insurance and healthcare systems in California;Advocated for affordable housing. Implemented the Winter Relief Fund (Winterschluss) in 1936;Expanded social welfare programs for German citizens. Anti-tobacco Led fights for stricter regulations and taxes on cigarettes in California;Supported anti-smoking education. Imposed anti-smoking laws and anti-tobacco education campaigns;Restricted tobacco advertising and sales. Animal Rights Advocated for animal welfare laws throughout her career;Supported anti-animal cruelty legislation. Strengthened Germany’s animal rights laws;Protected wildlife reserves and forests through various programs. Environmental Protection Supported measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions;Advocated for environmental protection in California. Implemented programs to protect Germany’s wildlife reserves and forests;Passed laws to preserve the natural environment. Automotive Industrial Support Proposed measures to enhance American auto industry development;Supported benefits within the US. Established state-led initiatives to promote the German automotive industry;Encouraged car ownership through programs like the Volkswagen Beetle. Infrastructure Development Backed infrastructure development projects;Advocated for increased investment in America’s infrastructure. Initiated massive infrastructure projects, including the construction of the Autobahn highway system;Developed public transportation systems. That’s only 7 items, none are particular to Hitler’s fascism. Mine was 14 items, and particular to Hitler’s fascism.
You said your list would be “just as long”.
You may as well have included “Hitler had two legs, Kamala has two legs”.
Do you understand that the lists are supposed to reference elements of fascism?
But I’ll be generously and say two items relate to fascism: taxing tobacco, and increased firearm restrictions… The rest are pretty positive.
Come on buddy, only 12 more items to tie. Hell I’ll be impressed if you come up with 7 more (especially if they actually relate to fascism).
P.S Almost all presidents have an infrastructure bill. Probably as many as have two legs. Again you’re including too many generalities …I used none. All mine were specific to fascism. I’m calling out your sophistry.
There were forced historectomies women were made to undergo in ICE custody.
This is malinfornation and false[1](https://reason.com/volokh/2024/06/27/judge-concludes-nbcs-allegations-of-mass-hysterectomies-by-doctor-at-ice-facility-were-false-may-have-been-knowingly-recklessly-false/)
The official bipartisan US government investigation put it at 2, your Reason link lists 1. So a long way from the “mass hysterectomies” that were the sensationalist claims made. You’re right to push back on it.
There were still over 40 cases of invasive gynecological procedures done without consent, but it is not the claim made.deleted by creator
too true, Trump is much closer to Mussolini, weaponized incompetence writ large
I mean there’s the whole rally they just had at Madison Square Garden
How does have a rally in a specific area make u a nazi? Thats gotta be the stupidest argument ive ever heard. By that logic the current german president is a nazi cos the building their office in in.
If you think I’m referring exclusively to the location then you clearly haven’t actually read or listened to anything that was said at the rally in question.
I read the nytimes article and the quotes where bit offensive but i wouldnt say literally hitler level.
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The person you’re arguing with is called crocodile munted and the flag next to their name is Australian.
There is a slim chance they’re not able to vote in the us elections
I’m not sure if you’ve picked it up so to clearly spell it out: irritating other people for the simple pleasure of watching them becoming more irritated is a national sport in Australia.
Im an aussie i have no horse in this race. Im here to take the piss outa everyone for my own amusement. Trump is literally hitler is an exaggeration and u know it.
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Everything is Hitler.
Trump is a shitshow (pun intended), but there’s also Trump Derangement Syndrome.
There’s also lots of historical comparisons that can be made.
