im 100% canadian, I dont live in the US and wondering about your system.
so as i understand your political system, a president can only hold office 2 terms. in Trumps case, he served once already, does that mean he can only serve one more, or is the clock reset and he gets a shot at 8 years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.
“No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice,” doesn’t say consecutively. It would take a HUUUUGE leap of logic to insert that word where it doesn’t exist. I’m sure someone will make the argument, but by the letter and the intent of the law, Trump is done after this term.
“and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.” If Trump has a heart attack and dies before January 20, 2027, Vance would take over and serve 2+ years as President, meaning he could only be elected once for one four-year term.
The rest of Section 1 just means anyone who was in office at the time is grandfathered into the old rules (no limits).
It would take a HUUUUGE leap of logic
US Fifth Circuit of Appeals and Supreme Courts: “Hold My Beer”
For example, if Trump’s Republican Congress gets rid of elections, then this Amendment doesn’t matter.
They probably won’t get rid of elections… they’ll just have sham elections like Russia has to give the impression of “legitimacy” but I guarantee they’ll be heavily rigged in their favor.
Trump’s SCOTUS: trump isn’t a person, he’s an idea, a movement, therefore term limits are not applicable to him.
Then I too declare myself to be Trump. I’ll take the Presidency Mon-Tues, he can have it Weds-Thurs, and we’ll do alternating Fri-Sat-Sun weekends.
The logic train has left the station in the US judicial system.
Legally he can’t. But legally that fucker should have been in jail long ago, so who knows.
Right, there’s also a constitutional amendment saying insurrectionists can’t stand for office
I really wish Biden had gone after him 10% as hard as he went after Sanders.
Being President is an official act of the office of President, the President isn’t accountable for crimes as part of official acts, therefore breaking the law on Presidential term limits by staying President is legal.
Can’t someone run for President, name Trump his vice, then resign?
If they followed the law as written it would go to the next person in order of succession, the congressional house speaker, because he would be ineligible to hold the office after the second term.
Actually, no. The 22 amendment says that a person can’t be “elected” as President while the 25 amendment says that the Vice President shall become President in case of resignation. No contradiction here. So while Trump can’t be elected anymore he can still become President for unlimited terms.
You’re right, I thought it was hold not elected.
Legally he’s only got 2 terms. However as my government teacher explained, the constitution says what the Supreme Court says it says. So who knows what they’ll say about it.
They’d have to do some “creative interpretation” of the law
They’ve already said that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment doesn’t exist.
Very creative
He didn’t win the popular vote first time so they’ll argue he wasn’t “elected” then.
No
It’s 2 total terms. There’s no “resetting the clock” in that rule. Any attempt to remain in power for a third term would be blatantly unconstitutional.
That said, there’s a real concern that he’s likely to try anyway, and a non-zero chance that he’d succeed if he manages to fill enough of the government and military with people more loyal to him than to the constitution.
It’s worth mentioning that this has only been the case since the 1950’s. FDR was elected four times and died during his final term, after which term limits were added to the constitution in response.
It’s also worth adding, though, that the convention of only running for at most two terms had existed pretty much since the establishment of the republic (until FDR broke it), when Washington and Jefferson each chose not to run for third terms
Yup, Washington was wildly popular at the time. He easily could have stayed in office indefinitely, as long as nothing horrible happened. But his reasoning was that they had just rebelled against a monarchy, and he didn’t intend to start another one.
US Presidents are limited to two terms, it doesn’t matter if they are consecutive. Grover Cleveland is the only other president who has served two non-consecutive terms.
Term-limits are a relatively recent addition though, the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution was only ratified in 1951 after Franklin Roosevelt served four terms.
And just an addendum for non-Americans who also aren’t likely/don’t have time to click the links, FDR (Franklin Delano Roosevelt) was elected to 4 terms but died 82 days into his 4th term. He was succeeded by the vice president, Harry S. Truman.
Prior to FDR all presidents had voluntarily limited themselves to 2 terms following the precedent of the first president, George Washington. FDR’s running for a 3rd term was controversial at the time; in 1940 the U.S. had not yet joined the Second World War and intervening was still controversial, although opposition dwindled with the fall of France. Interestingly, FDR seeking a 4th term was much less controversial with the U.S. in the thick of the war in 1944. The constitution was amended a few years later to make sure it didn’t happen again, though.
Not always voluntary. Some tried for a third term and failed. Theo Roosevelt tried for a third term in 1912. Though his first term was taking over after McKinley was assassinated, but it was only some months in, and that would be covered as a first full term under the later amendment.
I didn’t know he tried for a third term but I’m also not surprised from what I know of him
You can only serve 2 terms. Period. Doesn’t matter if there is a gap between the terms. He served one. This is his last time, unless he does exactly what he plans to and eliminates elections to become SUPREME OVERLORD OF AMERICA.
Correct, this is the last time he can be elected.
“No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.” https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xxii
Unless you change the rules with the help of the supreme court of which you elected several judges. I mean, Xi and Putin did it, why can’t Trump?
By all means, I’d expect him to try, however, this is a constitutional amendment. The Supreme Court can’t take back an amendment the way they can strike down laws (I.e. by ruling it unconstitutional for whatever reason), because it IS constitutional by definition.
Thankfully, the Constitution is also very specific about what it takes to amend it further. 2/3 of both chambers of Congress, or 2/3 of state legislatures must vote to just propose an amendment, and then, to pass the amendment, they need 3/4 of the vote. Because the process is enumerated, there’s no legal ambiguity they can use to shape their ruling the way they want. To remove term limits, you must amend the Constitution. To amend the Constitution, you must meet these (intentionally) high thresholds. If A -> then B.
So, unless Trump is able to woo half of the sitting Democrats, as well as 100% of the Republicans, we’re safe from the system being used to guillotine itself (instead, the system will spend the next 4 years hitting itself in the face with a bat). Now, if Trump wants to seize power outside of the system, that’s a different ball game, and the relative friendliness of judges and Congress is a moot point.
Same happened with Hitler. We all know how that turned out. There are humorous similarities, like addiction to amphetamines and not drinking alcohol.
People who really want to do harm always find ways to bend the rules and get away with it.
The Supreme Court can’t take back an amendment the way they can strike down laws (I.e. by ruling it unconstitutional for whatever reason), because it IS constitutional by definition.
Yeah, but the problem is that the Supreme Court are also the arbiters of the interpretation of the document, and there’s nothing to suggest that they can’t simply come out and say “Oh, it means two consecutive terms”, which is exactly what Putin does in Russia with their term limits - some stooge takes over for a term and then Putin wins in yet another landslide.
I mean, the 22nd Amendment is very clean, IMO. “No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice” is pretty unambiguous, but I really can’t put anything past this corrupt administration. A coup is probably more likely, but if Trump can somehow get the law on his side he won’t need to, so I’m sure he would prefer that route.
I hope accurate assinations make a come back if that happens.
Accurate Assassinations is a nice band name.
It means this is his last term, barring any changes to the law or extralegal shenanigans, period.
He gets two terms, whether they’re split up or not. This is his last term by law.
He’s probably just going to stay anyway, because Republicans have managed to infect government with the kinds of losers who would back something like that.
Legally, yes. (But of course, the Supreme Court has turned interpreting the Constitution into a game of Calvinball.)
The only exception I know to 2 terms and 8 years are getting moved from vice president to president and I think that also has a limit. The problem is the US president is now above the law and no one other than congress can stop him, and his sycophants own congress.
Iirc if the vice replaces the pres after the halfway mark of the term they can server two full terms.
You can only be elected as president twice. You can probably hack the system by getting multiple other presidents to select you as vice president, then resign. If you serve more than 2 years of the term they were elected to, that reduces the number of times you can be elected as president to one.
The 22nd amendment doesn’t say that someone that serves 3.99 years of another president’s term multiple times can’t still be elected, and it doesn’t say that someone not qualified to be elected as president can’t be elected as vice president, but the 12th amendment might. Either of those could be an interesting legal fight.
That’s against the rules though. I think it’s the 13th amendment that says a president who was elected twice can’t be selected as VP.
The 13th ended slavery. You’re probably thinking of the 12th which says that no person constitutionally ineligible to “be” president can be elected as vice president. Importantly, the 22nd only places limits on being “elected” as president, so it’s not (necessarily) creating a constitutional requirement to “be” president by some other means.
Like I said, it could be an interesting legal fight if it even came up.
It’s two terms period. They do not have to be consecutive. There are ways for a President to serve more than 8 years but it’s very specific and not really applicable in Trumps case. Unless they decide to toss out the constitution, which honestly seems kinda likely, then it’s two terms.
But he’s also a 80 year old man who eats McDonalds and coca cola while painting himself with orange, probably lead based, paint. I don’t expect him to survive the next 4 years to be able to run again.
“Walk for president”
I think it’s technically written as 10 years. If a vice president replaced the president, he could serve 2 more terms as long as he only replaced the president for 2 years. If he served out more than 2 years, he could only be president for 1 additional term.
The two term limit was set by the 22nd amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The language in it is that no person may be elected to the office of President for more than two terms. It does not specify any criteria about consecutive terms, meaning it doesn’t matter. They simply can’t be elected more than twice to the office President under any conditions. It also specifies that if they served more than two years as President when they weren’t elected to that office (such as when a VP assumes the office after the President dies), they can’t be elected to the office of President more than once. In other words, a 2+ year term of a president after succeeding the previous president whose term ends early, counts as a full term in regard to this 2 term limit.
In other words, this SHOULD be his last term. There are two legal loopholes, however. 1) If he somehow managed to coerce a skip or elimination of the next election, he could assume another term without defying the constitution. There is currently no mechanism to do that, but an act of a partisan Congress upheld by the partisan Supreme Court could make such a thing possible. 2) if he ran as VP for another person, which is constitutionally allowed, he could be elected as VP and then the elected President could resign, die, or be removed from office and Trump would be President again. Also, a new amendment to the constitution could be passed to negate or modify the 22nd amendments’ term limit. Though that would require a lot of Democrats also voting for it.
- if he ran as VP for another person, which is constitutionally allowed, he could be elected as VP
This is an interesting, but untested, legal theory. When Al Gore ran in 2000, there were murmurings of whether he should try to get Bill Clinton on the ticket as VP. Ultimately, there was some consensus that this part of 12th Amendment wasn’t superseded by any others: “But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”
It’s a bit of an open question whether that means only those parts of the eligibility requirements in place at the time (35 years old, natural born citizen, etc), or whether new requirements are also included, such as already serving two full terms as President. Clinton/Gore didn’t want to push those boundaries, but Trump certainly could try.
Edit: The 2012 book Constitutional Cliffhangers has a whole chapter dedicated to this and similar scenarios. It became a must-read in Trump’s first term, and is even more of one now.
Honestly, I would be very surprised if he were disallowed. Not only because, as you said, it is unclear if the 12th amendment eligibility conditions apply to conditions added after the 12th amendment and make no reference to modifying it. But also because the 22nd amendment does not, in fact, specify that someone who has served two terms is ineligible to be President. Rather it is very specifically a condition about being elected to president. If we’re interpreting the constitution strictly literally, the 22nd amendment doesn’t make a new condition for eligibility to be President, only for being elected president. So the 12th amendment would not apply. That may not have been the intent, but if anyone thinks the same Supreme Court that ruled that the President has absolute immunity on the use of his presidential powers isn’t going to let Trump slide right through that loophole… well, you could probably convince them it was raining as you piss on their leg.
He could run again as a placeholders VP, then have the placeholder resign after taking office. This would bypass the can only be “elected” twice rule.
Yes, there is an amendment that requires a VP to meet the same eligibility requirements as the president that should prevent this, but a corrupt court could rule that since that amendment does not explicitly mention term limits, those do not apply…
