I think it’s one of those things where the intent is good, but the implementation will cause issues. Another risk is if the laws are abused under the guise of protection. At the same time, it’s an important issue to try and address.
Encrypted messaging for example. It’s impossible to have secure and encrypted messaging while also scanning the contents for issues. The best you could do is local scanning, but that won’t be effective at all (it’ll block legitimate content and let through harmful stuff).
If you get rid of encrypted messaging, that will make a lot of day to day work impossible, and it would harm those who need the protection of encrypted messages (ex. Journalists, whistleblowers, those under totalitarian/authorative governments)
This seems to be misinformation being spread around? I don’t live in the uk so I can only go by what I research on the internet, and it doesn’t seem to do anything to end end to end encryption. (That was fun to type!)
There will still be apps and platforms you can use encrypted, social media included. They just want ways to access the encrypted information on harmful social media sites, as a way to enforce the safety standards, which makes perfect sense. It’s social media not the DoD.
People can move over to signal or use actual apps meant for encryption. Facebook should 100% be able to see what is going on and being said on their platforms, you have no expectations of privacy there my guy. Same for all social media. It’s a publicly facing service so it needs to be guarded and monitored same as any other, and it’s well past time we started holding the platforms responsible.
Maybe once they start facing fines for not only allowing but pushing through algorithms nothing but horrible and hateful content, they’ll do a better job of moderating their environments.
The apps you’re talking about are the ones being targeted - encrypted chat apps. Those apps (including Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, Session etc) have all said they’ll pull out of the UK market if this happens.
You guys need to read the article then, you’re freaking out over nothing because those apps are not targeted in the law that’s been passed. They only left in the parts demanding social media take responsibility for what they platform.
The bill…imposes strict requirements on large social platforms to remove illegal content.
Oh no!
Additionally, the Online Safety Bill mandates new age-checking measures to prevent underage children from seeing harmful content.
That’s awful!
It also pushes large social media platforms to become more transparent about the dangers they pose to children, while also giving parents and kids the ability to report issues online. Potential penalties are also harsh: up to 10 percent of a company’s global annual revenue.
Won’t somebody think of the corporations!
the bill could also put encrypted messaging services, like WhatsApp, at risk. Under the terms of the bill, encrypted messaging apps would be obligated to check users’ messages for child sexual abuse material.
Absolutely disgusting overreach!
Signal president Meredith Whittaker, meanwhile, issued tentative praise for the ongoing conversation around the bill. “While it’s not everything we wanted, we are more optimistic than we were when we began engaging with the UK government. It matters that the government came out publicly, clearly acknowledging that there is no technology that can safely and privately scan everyone’s communications,” Whittaker said
Now the president of signal is onboard for some reason?!? He must have been a privacy poser this whole time!
…… yeah thanks for linking that article, it really cleared things up on the imminent danger policing the internet for the first time with consequences will hold for us all. Jesus Christ, there might be less death, violence, gore, csam, and hate on The Internet for once, absolutely appalling. /MASSIVEFUCKING-S
They may be the equivalent of arguing with a dude that drinks pee for fun. If he cannot understand the intracusy of what it means to truly lose privacy by looking at other controlling countries, he’s already lost.
Why are you even posting in a privacy related community?
Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber, I was browsing the Hot content when this aggregated up and tickled my fancy.
Got curious what the bill was actually about, not just what the hyperbole was saying, so I researched it myself and found the middle ground between the provocative takes and reached a grown up conclusion for myself.
I know that must be confusing for you, but here we are!
You’ve reached a conclusion on a 300 page Bill based on reading two short articles. You’ve performed no further research on the subject whatsoever and now you’re here parading your ignorance like its something to be proud of.
When encrypted apps get backdoored or they remove themselves from the market two things will happen.
Firstly, all the sickos and crims will simply move to darkweb based communication or self hosted solutions or no-memory solutions. This will make them twice as difficult to detect and capture.
The other thing that will happen is that non-techy people who rely on private chat apps like WhatsApp or Signal, such as those supported by various charities and victim support groups including abused wives, rape victims, young people struggling with sexual or gender identity, mentally ill people and sexual abuse survivors will suddenly have nothing to use that they feel safe using. Here’s a few quotes from a response paper for very similar EU proposed legislation:
"As an abuse survivor, I (and millions of other survivors across the world) rely on confidential communications to both find support and report the crimes against us – to remove our rights to privacy and confidentiality is to subject us to further injury and frankly, we have suffered enough.”
– An Irish survivor of child abuse
“Using the veil of morality and the guise of protecting the most vulnerable and beloved in our societies to introduce this potential monster of an initiative is despicable.”
– A German survivor of child abuse
“Especially being a victim of sexual abuse, it is important to me that trusted communication is possible, e.g. in self-help groups and with therapists. If encryption is undermined, this also weakens the possibilities for those affected by sexual abuse to seek help.”
– A French survivor of child abuse
People like you and the people who dream up legislation like this aren’t really interested in preventing abuse. You’re interested in not seeing it and therefore being able to ignore it’s happening - because nothing in this Bill will prevent a child from being abused. It seems to me that we’d be far better off as a society if we 'd spent 6 years and millions of pounds on researching and proposing laws on preventing the abuse itself.
I think it’s one of those things where the intent is good, but the implementation will cause issues. Another risk is if the laws are abused under the guise of protection. At the same time, it’s an important issue to try and address.
Encrypted messaging for example. It’s impossible to have secure and encrypted messaging while also scanning the contents for issues. The best you could do is local scanning, but that won’t be effective at all (it’ll block legitimate content and let through harmful stuff).
If you get rid of encrypted messaging, that will make a lot of day to day work impossible, and it would harm those who need the protection of encrypted messages (ex. Journalists, whistleblowers, those under totalitarian/authorative governments)
This seems to be misinformation being spread around? I don’t live in the uk so I can only go by what I research on the internet, and it doesn’t seem to do anything to end end to end encryption. (That was fun to type!)
There will still be apps and platforms you can use encrypted, social media included. They just want ways to access the encrypted information on harmful social media sites, as a way to enforce the safety standards, which makes perfect sense. It’s social media not the DoD.
People can move over to signal or use actual apps meant for encryption. Facebook should 100% be able to see what is going on and being said on their platforms, you have no expectations of privacy there my guy. Same for all social media. It’s a publicly facing service so it needs to be guarded and monitored same as any other, and it’s well past time we started holding the platforms responsible.
Maybe once they start facing fines for not only allowing but pushing through algorithms nothing but horrible and hateful content, they’ll do a better job of moderating their environments.
The apps you’re talking about are the ones being targeted - encrypted chat apps. Those apps (including Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, Session etc) have all said they’ll pull out of the UK market if this happens.
You guys need to read the article then, you’re freaking out over nothing because those apps are not targeted in the law that’s been passed. They only left in the parts demanding social media take responsibility for what they platform.
Seriously, read the Bill.
Edit: The Verge just published a general overview.
Oh no!
That’s awful!
Won’t somebody think of the corporations!
Absolutely disgusting overreach!
Now the president of signal is onboard for some reason?!? He must have been a privacy poser this whole time!
…… yeah thanks for linking that article, it really cleared things up on the imminent danger policing the internet for the first time with consequences will hold for us all. Jesus Christ, there might be less death, violence, gore, csam, and hate on The Internet for once, absolutely appalling. /MASSIVEFUCKING-S
Good job on purposefully misunderstanding absolutely everything there. Quite a feat of tortuous logic.
Why are you even posting in a privacy related community? Or are you new to the whole thing?
They may be the equivalent of arguing with a dude that drinks pee for fun. If he cannot understand the intracusy of what it means to truly lose privacy by looking at other controlling countries, he’s already lost.
Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber, I was browsing the Hot content when this aggregated up and tickled my fancy.
Got curious what the bill was actually about, not just what the hyperbole was saying, so I researched it myself and found the middle ground between the provocative takes and reached a grown up conclusion for myself.
I know that must be confusing for you, but here we are!
You’ve reached a conclusion on a 300 page Bill based on reading two short articles. You’ve performed no further research on the subject whatsoever and now you’re here parading your ignorance like its something to be proud of.
When encrypted apps get backdoored or they remove themselves from the market two things will happen.
Firstly, all the sickos and crims will simply move to darkweb based communication or self hosted solutions or no-memory solutions. This will make them twice as difficult to detect and capture.
The other thing that will happen is that non-techy people who rely on private chat apps like WhatsApp or Signal, such as those supported by various charities and victim support groups including abused wives, rape victims, young people struggling with sexual or gender identity, mentally ill people and sexual abuse survivors will suddenly have nothing to use that they feel safe using. Here’s a few quotes from a response paper for very similar EU proposed legislation:
"As an abuse survivor, I (and millions of other survivors across the world) rely on confidential communications to both find support and report the crimes against us – to remove our rights to privacy and confidentiality is to subject us to further injury and frankly, we have suffered enough.” – An Irish survivor of child abuse
“Using the veil of morality and the guise of protecting the most vulnerable and beloved in our societies to introduce this potential monster of an initiative is despicable.” – A German survivor of child abuse
“Especially being a victim of sexual abuse, it is important to me that trusted communication is possible, e.g. in self-help groups and with therapists. If encryption is undermined, this also weakens the possibilities for those affected by sexual abuse to seek help.” – A French survivor of child abuse
People like you and the people who dream up legislation like this aren’t really interested in preventing abuse. You’re interested in not seeing it and therefore being able to ignore it’s happening - because nothing in this Bill will prevent a child from being abused. It seems to me that we’d be far better off as a society if we 'd spent 6 years and millions of pounds on researching and proposing laws on preventing the abuse itself.
I got that from the article though, it’s in the bit I quoted as well
I’m not from the UK so I was using the articles