• samus12345@lemm.ee
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    2 days ago

    The cars suck, but he’s right that the company hasn’t done anything to deserve this. He’s the one who chose to make himself the face of Tesla, though, so however people feel about him, they’ll feel about any business he owns.

    Terrorism, though? Hardly. It’s protest. He’s the one doing terrorism by dismantling the government.

    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The cars are poorly designed to the point of being dangerous. They deserve it a little.

      • Doctor_Satan@lemmy.world
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        22 hours ago

        It’s property damage that was done specifically to avoid hurting people. By that interpretation, Banksy could also be classified as a terrorist.

          • Doctor_Satan@lemmy.world
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            21 hours ago

            Is it though?

            ZACHARY, La. (BRPROUD) – The Zachary Police Department says they arrested a former student after Zachary High School was tagged with graffiti.

            Police say that Shyron White was arrested at his home in Livingston Parish for drawing a triangle with a symbol in it on the exterior doors. Graffiti was found in several locations around the building, and police were alerted on Tuesday.

            “It’s always important to not damage someone else’s property. It costs money and time to, you know, to actually fix,” Zachary Police Department Chief Daryl Lawrence said. “And then you’ll have people like us out looking for you.”

            Lawrence said an incident like this is not common for the Zachary community. White is booked in the East Baton Rouge Parish Prison, charged with terrorism, criminal damage to property, aggravated assault and criminal trespassing.

            This is the Orwellian shit you’re advocating when you start classifying vandalism as terrorism.

            • Ulrich@feddit.org
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              20 hours ago

              Yes, it is. I don’t know what “a triangle with a symbol in it” is but if it’s associated with an ideology then that fits the definition, yes. Judges and juries are allowed to exercise discretion, and I hope that they do. That has no bearing on whether it is or is not terrorism.

      • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Spraypaint a traffic camera, violence.

        So what I’m hearing is, if you burn Tesla because their CEO is a scum-sucking useless billionaire who is dismantling the social services that you and your family rely on (and paid for!), in order to cut taxes for the 1%, you’re a terrorist.

        If you set shit on fire because you like to watch stuff burn, you’re just a plain ol’ arsonist.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          1 day ago

          If that’s what you’re hearing, you should have your ears checked. It doesn’t matter who the offending person is or what they do. It only matters what the perpetrator does.

            • Ulrich@feddit.org
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              1 day ago

              No, what you wrote is:

              If you set shit on fire because you like to watch stuff burn, you’re just a plain ol’ arsonist.

                • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                  1 day ago

                  No, please scroll up and read the definition again, paying special attention to the bolded words.

      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        Yes, but that definition also defines… basically all the most heinous things that Trump and those around him have done in the last… 5 years, lets say? … as terrorism.

        Remember CPAC, 2022?

        … kinda speaks for itself.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          2 days ago

          You can make that argument but you’re not arguing that burning down a Tesla dealership isn’t terrorism, you’re just making a whataboutism.

          • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zip
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            2 days ago

            Yes, that is basically what I am doing.

            Was that not clear?

            I am attempting to point out the given definition of terrorism is quite broad, and easily interpreted subjectively depending on your biases.

            Burn down a Tesla dealership?

            Terrorism.

            Boston Tea Party?

            Terrorism.

            Jan 6th?

            Terrorism.

            Bay of Pigs Invasion?

            Terrorism, more technically ‘State Terrorism’.

            Many, many acts of resistance groups in German occupied Europe during WW2?

            Also Terrorism.

            Order an extrajudicial assasination? Order or carry out mass arrests without proper warrants or authority?

            Plant false evidence or fabricate some kind of ‘suspicious behavior’ to justify an arrest or detainment or use of force or conviction, motivated by a political/religious/ethic/etc bias?

            Again, Terrorism, though more specifically that is ‘State Terrorism’.

            Saying “I am going to kill [very important political figure]”?

            Terrorism.

            Pilot a ship on the sea to harass dragnet fishing boats or whalers?

            Terrorism.

            Any protest group that has ‘illegally’ gathered in an area or building without a permit, where a single person threw a punch or resisted arrest?

            Again, also terrorism.

            … All of these things either are or could easily be interpreted to be both violent and criminal acts, with either a motivation or desired effect being biased toward some specific group of people.

            https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism

            You may note that precisely defining terrorism is actually somewhat difficult, as indicated by the wide range of different definitions used by different groups and at different times, and is actually the subject of a whole lot of academic and legal debate and disagreement, with slight but very significant differences over time and place/jurisdiction.

              • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zip
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                2 days ago

                Great!

                I am glad you agree that by your (the FBI’s current) definition, most police in the US are terrorists, every President going back to at least JFK is a terrorist, everyone who violently resisted the Nazis were terrorists, and every single protest everywhere, ever, that has involved any single member of that protest being charged with resisting arrest has also been terrorism.

                • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                  2 days ago

                  I didn’t agree with any of that but I won’t disagree either.

                  • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zip
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                    2 days ago

                    You said ‘we are in agreement’ to my last post in this thread, and my last post in this thread pointed out that all of those scenarios are terrorism with the definition that you chose as ‘pretty much the definition of terrorism’.

                    So yes, you did agree.

                    But now you don’t agree, but also do not disagree.

                    … Could it possibly be the case that the definition of terrorism you chose is a bit too broad?

      • samus12345@lemm.ee
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        1 day ago

        criminal acts

        With this definition, a government can do anything it wants without it being terrorism because it gets to decide what’s criminal. So while it may be terrorism by definition, that definition is pretty useless without a lot of context.

      • AFK BRB Chocolate@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Not sure why some people are disagreeing - it for sure fits the definition. I’m not exactly sad about it - Musk is helping to rip apart the country and I have a hard time blaming people who feel that helping to rip apart one of his companies is about all they can do - but committing arson to further an ideology is terrorism.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          2 days ago

          Not sure why some people are disagreeing

          They don’t like the connotation. Which is fair. Nuance is hard and if you say “yes, we’re terrorists” there’s no way that’s not going to be wielded against “your people” in the court of public opinion.

          But facts are facts.

      • sharkyfox@feddit.uk
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        2 days ago

        This is resisting, not furthering, ideological goals.

        Could you state the ideological goal of these attacks?

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          2 days ago

          This is resisting, not furthering, ideological goals.

          It’s the same thing.

          Could you state the ideological goal of these attacks?

          Seriously? You need that explained to you? How much time do you have? Eccentric billionaire seeks to destroy democracy, manipulate the public, oppress and marginalize it’s people, consolidate wealth in the elite class, dismantle federal institutions that check him, defy the law, for starters. You haven’t heard about any of this? The “ideological goal” is to end it.

          • sharkyfox@feddit.uk
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            2 days ago

            Sorry but I really don’t think it’s the same thing. People are motivated to do this to oppose an ideology, not to promote one. They could come from almost any ideological starting point, and all they want, essentially is a return to the status quo.

            Again, which ideology does this action promote?

            • Ulrich@feddit.org
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              1 day ago

              Sorry but I really don’t think it’s the same thing.

              There’s no need to apologize for disagreeing. Just explain yourself.

              People are motivated to do this to oppose an ideology, not to promote one

              How can you not see that those are the same thing?

              Again, which ideology does this action promote?

              I just explained that in great detail in the comment you replied to…

              • sharkyfox@feddit.uk
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                15 hours ago

                Opposing the construction of a highway is not the same as trying to construct a highway.