Highlight:

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant said. “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”

  • ???@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    They should take down the walls, negotiate with Hamas, return lands to Gaza, end the blockade and start a very long fucking peace process.

    • Iceblade@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      You do realize that Israel withdrew completely from Gaza territory in 2005, right? They haven’t occupied any land in the area for almost 20 years.

      • ???@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        You left out the part where they put them under siege and control the influx of water, fuel, electricity, goods, and people.

        So they haven’t occupied them, they have just put them in an open air prison.

        • Iceblade@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s the sort of thing that happens if you keep attacking your neighbors. Hells, not even Egypt wants anything to do with the Hamas gov:t in Gaza. That’s how bad it is.

          • ???@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            You still are leaving out the part where Israel is the one controlling the siege. Things with Egypt are politics. The checkpoint there under Egypt’s current government has been “open” (as open as it gets in this situation), which still doesn’t mean much and you can’t get anything through.

            These people are under a blockade, completely controlled by Israel, with their own neighbours betraying them.

            How Egypt and Israel feel about the Hamas gov’t does not justify holding 2 million people hostage with no water or fuel or electricity.

            • Iceblade@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              Regardless of what we feel is justified or not, that is what war is - hell for everybody involved. Let’s just hope that this doesn’t get drawn out.

    • Frigorific@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      Isreal now sees Hamas as an existential threat. The only way to end the bloodshed would be Hamas offering an unconditional surrender.

      • ???@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        1 year ago

        The only way to end the bloodshed would be Hamas offering an unconditional surrender.

        And then what happens? Will Palestinians be guaranteed their basic rights? If Palestinians are not given the chance to be full citizens and have self-determination, this will only repeat in another 2-3 years.

        • Frigorific@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          I do not think you understand how bad this is going to get for Palestinians in Gaza. Hamas has just perpetrated the worst terrorist attack in Isreals history.

          From everything I am reading these are not just retaliatory strikes. Isreal is preparing for a full offensive on Gaza involving tanks, artillery and infantry. This could very well end with Gaza looking like Grozny, Mariupol, or Bakhmut.

          I hope that doesn’t happen, but if Hamas cared at all about the Palestinian people they would do everything in their power to avoid that. Unfortunately they only care about power and I think this is going to get very ugly in the next phase of the war.

          • ???@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            1 year ago

            but if Hamas cared at all about the Palestinian people they would do everything in their power to avoid that.

            but if Israel cared at all about the Palestinian people they would do everything in their power to avoid that.

            Everything goes both ways exactly the same.

            • dumdum666@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Israel is out for revenge and as I have written elsewhere: When they enter Gaza, they want to get attacked. Because after an attack they will retaliate and every dead civilian, while retaliating against Hamas, will be considered collateral damage.

              Hamas made the whole Gaza Invasion an easy sell for a lot of people. And no, I don’t think that it is ok to kill civilians.

              My illusory wish for the Middle East would be something like a joint state of Palestinians AND Israelis - so that they can all access their holy sites. Forcing both sides to work together.

              • ???@lemmy.worldOP
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                Hmmm, so if you were Hamas, for example, and you decide to deescalate in hopes of eventually reaching an agreement over a joint state, what would you do?

                Also the same question but if you were Israel, what would you do (let’s say today) to deescalate and seek a joint state solution?

                • dumdum666@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  At the moment there probably isn’t any will on either side to cooperate. Reasonable people with a will to compromise have to get involved…

                  Hamas publicly admitting that they fucked up by killing the civilians, releasing the hostages and calling for negotiations would be a first step in my opinion. Netanyahu would probably not know what to do in that situation.

                  If Israel were to make a first step: Netanyahu would only have to say that it cannot continue like this.

                  I mean look at France and Germany for example. Being archenemies for centuries caused immeasurable death and destruction in Europe and the whole world. Only after the Second World War those people realized that it cannot continue like this… and both countries murdered the shit out of each other before becoming something like friends.

                  Only if both parties are willing to break the cycle of violence, this will end.

                  • ???@lemmy.worldOP
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Sounds pretty balanced. I agree that Netanyahu would probably not know what to do readily since it would be very unexpected.

                    I’m was also watching the latest TL;DR video on YouTube about this and it seems that the reports say civilians are the ones who carried out the kidnapping of lots of civilian hostages while Hamas focused on military targets. I don’t know to what extent this is confirmable (since the source is Hamas itself).

                • BaroqueInMind@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  If you are Hamas you cannot do anything now, they are bloodlusted and will not stop until you are dead and your culture is wiped off the earth.

                  • ???@lemmy.worldOP
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Okay, but for the sake of this example, imagine you are Hamas and have changed your mind, what would be step 1?

    • WidowsFavoriteSon@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      1 year ago

      How the fuck do you negotiate with a state that does not beleive Israel should exist?

      The Palestinians brought this on themselves.

        • WidowsFavoriteSon@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          They support a government that refuses to talk peace. The position of Hamas, in its founding documents, is that the state of Israel should be exterminated. You reap what you sow.

          • ???@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            But the state of Israel is also trying to “exterminate” Palestinians. Everything from their far right gov’t to people chanting “Death to Arabs” on the street.

            It takes two to tango. If Hamas should step down, then Israel should step down at exactly the same moment.

          • bobalot@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Members of Netanyahu’s cabinet openly advocate annexation of large parts of the West Bank and have accelerated settlement construction.

            Cutting off food and water for 2.3 million people.

            The irony of Israel recreating the Warsaw ghetto is amazing.

        • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          21
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          For better or worse (and frankly, I take quite a lot of issue with how Israel was founded, looking at you Misters Sykes and Picot), Israel exists now. Most of its population was born there and knows no other home. To suggest that Israel should no longer exist is to endorse the violent elimination of millions of people from their homes, and we’ve literally just seen what Hamas’ method of doing so would look like. Even setting aside ethics, the fact of the matter is that Israel will not let that happen and will do everything in its power to ensure it.

          That said, what absolutely should not continue is any further expansion of Israel into Palestinian lands. West Bank settlements are considered illegal by literally every country in the world and are a deliberate method of ensuring that a Palestinian state is never viable. There is a, now almost entirely implausible, viable solution where Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, swaps some land in the West Bank to account for East Jerusalem, stops the blockade of Gaza, and allows the creation of a Palestinian state that operates as a close security partner.

          What will never happen is any future where Israel no longer exists, no matter how much it might be argued about where it should have been created or anything else. Practically all nations of the Americas shouldn’t exist. Most European nations exist out of random decisions by monarchs. Tons of African and Middle Eastern nations were created by dropping some random lines on a map. This is a rabbit hole that does not end, and anyone who actually cares about finding a peaceful path forward has to accept that Israel exists today.

        • Frigorific@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          “How can we support colonisation and genocide in this day and age.”

          “Israel shouldn’t exist.”

          I think the answer was inside yourself the entire time.