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I think the Israeli government is authoritarian, and their scorched earth tactics against Palestinians are war crimes, but you’re not doing the cause any favors by invoking the Nazis. Criticize their actual behavior.
They turned Gaza into a concentration camp.
As Jews, they should absolutely know better.
There are amusement parks, beach resorts and night clubs… there’s a few travel vlogs showing what life was like before the attack on 10/7. I was quite surprised to see what was available there after the years of media.
Not saying it was the coastal beauty it could have been, but they had amenities that you didn’t exactly find at Auschwitz or Bergen…
You’re talking about Gaza or Tel Aviv? I’ve been to Gaza man, 95% of them didn’t have clean water in 2014 and that number didn’t change up until today. Gaza itself was a hellhole.
The resorts and stuff you see are on Jewish territory. They’ve destroyed anything nice Palestinians have.
I’m talking about Gaza. I’ve been there too, once they elected Hamas their fate was sealed. The potential was there before they fucked themselves for generations. Israel left a lot of infrastructure in place When they pulled out.
It wouldn’t have been Tel Aviv, they would never achieve the Tech power of that city but they could have been a real nice vacation spot.
They “elected” Hamas. In an election that was never certified, had more votes total than people living there and there hasn’t been an election since.
But even if they legit did vote for Hamas I wouldn’t blame them. Killing Israelis after all they’ve done is just.
So revenge is cool in your books. Interesting. Let’s see how that works out. Not a strategy id suggest.
I’m going to laugh and laugh when the collective Muslim world grinds Israel to the dust one day. I’ll probably even get to see it in my lifetime.
In the 20s Gaza was a tourist destination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
http://70.auschwitz.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=173&lang=en
Getting downvoted for linking to facts, you have my sympathy my friend…
The problem is their behavior and rhetoric towards Palestine resembles a sentiment shared by the OG Nazis
The problem is when you mention Nazis to Jews, the first things they’ll think of are Zyklon B, Babi Yar, the piles of children’s shoes at Auschwitz, Mengele, that sort of thing.
And while what’s going on in Israel is terrible, it’s not Mengele terrible, Babi Yar terrible, or Treblinka terrible. So they write you off as just another antisemite, rather than listening to your point.
And yet that was only the very end. The stuff that came before that might as well be a mirror to the way Israel is treating the Palestinians.
No, not really. Nazi Germany lasted from 1933-1945.
From 1933 to 1939, things were mostly non-lethal: boycotting and vandalizing shops, banning Jews from public service or practicing law, harassing Jews, etc. The basic idea was to get Jews to emigrate out of Germany.
The first open ghettos were established in 1939, while the massacres really started in 1941.
If you’re going to compare Gaza to part of Nazi Germany, the best comparison is to the closed ghettos that were established in 1940, like the Warsaw ghetto. The period between the establishment of the closed ghettos and the beginning of the mass killings was way, way shorter than the mass killings. Of the 12 year span of Nazi Germany, the best comparison is to a period that lasted for about a year or so, 7 years in.
Nazi Germany really isn’t a great historical comparison to Israel. Honestly, a better comparison is to the US’s treatment of Native Americans, though it’s still not a perfect analogy. The dream of Israel’s far right isn’t to murder every last Palestinian, it’s manifest destiny; an Israel stretching from the river to the sea even if there’s a few small reservations on it.
Netanyahu and his cohorts have explicitly said they believe they need to kill every last Palestinian. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/benjamin-netanyahu-amalek-israel-palestine-gaza-saul-samuel-old-testament/
I read this, and from what I can tell, he explicitly said they believe they need to kill every last member of Hamas, and a different unrelated person wrote an essay about how they need to kill all Palestinians?
They also have said anyone remaining in Gaza is Hamas so…
Well, thats only a relevant distinction if they meaningfully differentiate between Hamas and Palestinian. Considering they’ve talked about using nukes, that they think sacrificing an entire hospital full of innocents to maybe kill a few Hamas, and that we DAMN WELL KNOW how racism means generalizing anyone of a group to be the worst kind of that group, and the fact that the totally un-Hamas west bank is getting ethnically cleansed too, it’s incredibly naive to think they’ll leave any reasonable amount of palestinians alive.
Jesus Christ what a fuckng psycho
You need to look at what’s happening in West Bank.
When the Israelis impose a system of racial domination on Palestinians that is objectively worse than Apartheid, I’d say you needn’t bother handwringing about Israelis getting their feelings hurt. Fascists is always an alternative though - they’re politicians have used it themselves.
Netanyahu himself has made racist jokes favouring white Jews over the north african immigrants, so while ‘white supremacist’ also works at that point, you’re back to just saying ‘Nazi’.
Why is it worse rhan apartheid?
Because Jews don’t need Palestinians like White South Africans needed Black people for low wage jobs. So they can genocide them without a thought.
No I meant what evidence do you have that what they are actually doing is worse than apartheid?
Chiefly Nelson Mandela’s own words on the matter and Noam Chomsky’s. Other South Africans. The two-tier colonial system in place and TCM’s recent testimony on what he saw in the occupied territories was enlightening too.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
TCM’s recent testimony on what he saw in the occupied territories
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
A craven terrorist attack caused a military response that has claimed 11,000 lives to date, with a substantial proportion of those lives being women and children. This is a horrible thing. Hamas and the Israeli government can both go fuck themselves for the misery they have caused.
That said, AFAIK nobody is sending Israeli troops in to round up Palestinians and systematically incinerate them until all Palestinians are dead.
6,000,000 Jews suffered that fate.
The bombing of Dresden took 25,000 German lives. Nobody called that an attempted genocide.
Perspective is important.
In a context where we have the lies about the hospitals having tunnels under them, that 40 non-existent babies were beheaded and where some key facts about Oct 7 have somewhat unravelled, how far would you even bother policing the words of people wishing for a liberated Palestinian?
The Israelis and their supporters are also notorious liars and frequently try to claim that Muslims or brown people were responsible for the Holocaust in Europe.
They’ve bombed civilians before and the intelligence they send tend to be garbage according to EU after they looked through the reams of documents the Israelis sent them. As an occupier, Israel behaves like a country at war all the time, they lie, kill and cheat perpetually.
I have never heard of Israelis by trying to blame the Holocaust on Arabs. On the other hand. .
https://themedialine.org/top-stories/holocaust-denial-still-common-in-the-arab-world-but-views-are-changing/
I’ll verify that my Arabic family are wildly antisemitic. They don’t denigrate Jewish individuals, mock their appearance, call them filth or anything in that vein. But they’re not just anti-Zionists either. They believe Jews control the world through a shadow network of conspirators. And when you believe that, it fits right in that they must have manufactured a Holocaust to win sympathy.
I think it all stems from anti-Zionism, though. They see a tiny country holding out against the entire Arab world, with the backing of powerful westerners, and their explanation is that the Israelis must have America and the EU dancing on puppet strings. It’s like when a foe pulls off a stunning victory and their enemies say they must have cut a deal with the devil because how else do you explain it. I don’t believe any of that, though I do find the American military support for Israel totally sus and wrong.
Jews were in high positions in the Arab world and iirc lived well. Much of the blame for the rise in anti-semitism is almost purely down to Zionism. Jews came to be seen as colonial collaboraters with the great powers against that region. In Algeria they literally were - the French were able to create a two-tier colonial society by giving Jewish Algerians who were native to Algeria citizenship and denying Muslims the same by claiming cultural incompatibility. Hence, Jews became a colonial force in that country.
In Iraq, Zionists terrorised the Arab (Iraqi!) Jewish community there by bombing Synagogues and cultural centers and collaborated with Iraqi nationalists to force Iraqi Jews into leaving for Israel.
So there are different experiences here, but almost all is down to colonialism and zionism.
Yep great insights. Thank you for adding.
Lol when were these Jews in Iraq bombed and who exactly are the zionists who did the bombing?
Imagine you walked into the camps and saw the smattering of walking skeletons that were left from the multiple thousands of people who had preceded them into the gas chambers or ovens.
I think it’s hard to really imagine what level of trauma that would cause, and how shocking it would be to see those images.
I think that is the foundation of a powerful bond between the West and Israel, and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
I find it extremely troubling that Netanyahu and his cronies have said that the only solution to the issues they are having is to exterminate all Palestinians (assuming that quote is accurate) and I do think that their actions are horrifying and deserve criticism, but that’s the government. I have no issue with the people of Israel. I believe that in part these actions are Bibi covering his own ass for not stopping nor even anticipating a massive attack from a known enemy. I understand his desire to root out Hamas, but there has to be a way to do so with more accuracy and less civilian misery and death.
He has said Hitler didn’t intend to destroy Jews until a Muslim told him to.
His son posts Nazi memes on Facebook (featuring Greenwald).
He is also suspiciously happy that his son married a white Scandinavian woman.
He made racist jokes/comments about north african jews in their military and that white jewish officers must lead them.
Wait what came out about the October 7 attack?
Half the people on the list of deaths Israel put out had Lt and Sgt on their names. So they’re soldiers. And the official number has gone down from over 1400 to 1200.
Jesus Christ, so 600 civilians? And I’m guessing it’s over 10k in Palestine now? I’ll have to look for a source to verify this but if you have one in the meantime that’d be appreciated.
I’m saying half because of the list they put out, but apparently it looks to be 700-800 civilians when counted. The list they originally put out on twitter was an image.
These are all still Israel’s numbers, who are notorious liars. And we also know they were shooting and bombing hostages along with Hamas fighters indiscriminately during the battle.
You can see ‘half’ the image have Lt and Sgt on their names, sometimes in full. https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1722045168382021929
The comparisons to the Nazis are actually inescapable. I struggle to think of a centrally orchestrated and mechanized system of apartheid/oppression and now genocide that’s more similar.
Godwin’s Law was repealed in 2016.
“Godwin’s Law” only said that the comparison to Nazis becomes inescapable the longer a conversation goes (not the common interpretation “whoever says Nazi first loses”). If I remember right he actually went back later and said it’s perfectly fine to draw the Nazi analogy to fascist states.
The Israelis have set up a systematic means of rounding up and murdering people until their entire race is removed from existence?
I hadn’t heard.
…you mean at the military checkpoints where Palestinians routinely disappear? How about the fact that Israel conducts human medical experiments on prisoners. Or the systematic rape of Palestinian women. How about the systematic attacks on Palestinian infrastructure that leaves 95% of Gaza without access to clean water. And that was before this current mess.
Grow the fuck up and open your eyes. Israelis are straight up evil.
The Israeli government is straight up evil, maybe.
The Israeli people have been targets of precise statements from multiple neighbors over the years telling them they would be exterminated as soon as the opportunity arose.
Put yourself in that position and tell me you wouldn’t support a right wing militant government that ran on a platform of hard borders and strong military.
How many wars of aggression have been waged against Israel since its founding? How many terrorist attacks? If the nations surrounding them put down their weapons and accepted them, there would be peace in the region. If the Israelis put down their weapons they would be murdered en masse.
How would you like a populace that came within a hair’s breadth of systematic extermination to react when they move to an area and are immediately painted as liars by neighbors who are Holocaust deniers and express the desire to finish the job?
Also if your argument is strong enough there’s no need to add that last part. It makes you seem weak and devalues any merit in your words, of which there is plenty. Nobody wants to see people getting hurt, but to fail to differentiate between the Israeli government and the Israeli people, and to ignore the situation they are in and the precursor to the establishment of the state of Israel, is a mistake.
They chose for religious reasons to slowly invade and genocide a people in an area that was extremely hostile to them.
Historically Jewish people have been given land in Spain and Italy to found their own nation. Both times they sold it and invaded Israel in history.
I have zero sympathy for them, because historically, they’ve been the invading aggressors to the region because they feel they have some sort of religious right to it, and since I’m anti-theist and believe religion is the root of all evil seeing both sides die in this conflict is kind of desirable to me.
Children get indoctrinated into Islam and Judaism and inherit this conflict and its derived suffering from their parents. As an anti-theist, you should be able to see them as victims, rather than see the conflict as something positive.
Am I a poor little victom instead of an oppressor because I didn’t personally create patriarchy, white supremacy, ableism, heteronormativity? If I keep supporting those systems, at least when I’m an adult, I am an oppressor and fully responsible.
I understand as a fellow atheist, but I would just say try to have some compassion for people as a whole, even if they believe in stupid sky daddys.
After what I went through at the hands of my ultra religious parents, at the hands of the Catholic church I went to, and finally at the hands of the conversion therapy religious camp I was imprisoned in, I can tell you right now I have absolutely zero capacity for any compassion for any believer what so ever.
If I could press a button and kill them all I’d do it in a heartbeat. No believer deserves even the tiniest iota of your sympathy or compassion. I promise you one atheist to another, they feel the same way about you.
The Nazis forced Jews into ghettos. Gaza is a ghetto that Palestinians are forced to live in.
Zionists will not however, directly kill every Palestinian. They will indirectly try to kill every Palestinian by colonizing every last inch of land from the Palestinians. The ones that immigrate away will be too scattered to maintain a coherent ethnicity, and eventually their culture will be erased.
So, while practically speaking they’re not as bad as Nazis, they are as effective as Nazis, if not more so.
I’ve still got plenty of friends who support Israel over here in the states, including basically everyone conservative I know.
Interesting, I actually know a couple conservatives that are anti globalism, which justified their anti Israel stance. However, the conservatives I know that are party aligned due to religious preferences… that’s another story
They’re not “anti-globalism”. They don’t even know what that means. They’re just parroting Alex Jones. I don’t like globalism, but conservatives who go off about globalism are actually just being anti-semitic and using Israel as shorthand for “the Jewish secret ruling class”.
Which is encouraging. It’s been a relatively silent genocide for decades, and while it’s good to see people waking up, it’s almost too late. Kinda like climate change.
Pretty shitty genocide if the population keeps growing…
It’s grotesque to me people that keep repeating this. The accusations of genocide almost universally relate to after Oct. 7. And population growth over a 60 year stretch does not discredit incitement to genocide or actions taken to attempt genocide.
And ethnic cleansing is still genocide. Palestinians are refugees the world over because of Israel. Some stuck in Egypt, the Sinai desert, some in Europe and others internally displaced stuck in Gaza originating from other places in Israel. It all stems from the 1948 Nakba where Jewish terrorist gangs began a massacre and campaign of ethnic cleansing in Palestine.
You mean the less than 1 million Jews in the British Mandate in 1948 who accepted the UN resolution for 2 States and were attacked by the Arabs in the British Mandate and all the neighboring Arab countries? I don’t think you know what ethnic cleansing means. SMH
As someone who stands mostly in the middle, I rarely comment on this issue because every second poster calls anyone that has even the mildest sympathy for Israel’s situation a Nazi.
You people are tiresome and it’s honestly not worth ‘debating’ with you.
An ethno-state is based on race superiority that is committing genocide to expand their lebensraum by dehumanizing their enemies and calling for the indiscriminate slaughter of people of a certain race by locking them all up in a giant concentration camp.
Now where the fuck did I hear they one before? Oh yeah the Nazi’s. It’s almost comical how much israel is a copy of Nazi Germany.
You are correct that I will call every israel sympathizer a Nazi because they are Nazi’s by practically everyx single definition.
Sorry, didn’t read past ‘ethno-state’. Pretty clear where you were going from there. Nice talking with you.
I stand for the people. I support Israel, but not it’s far right government that wants to kill all palestinian people and take their lands, but at the same time, I support Palestine, but not it’s extremist terrorist leaders.
Wars are fought between two or more governments for their own goals and is a competition who cal kill the other side the most (including it’s civilians).
You can support a country without supporting their government, however people sometimes tend to be lazy and just say “fuck Israel” instead of saying “fuck the government of Israel”, or say “fuck Palestine” by being ignorant instead of saying “fuck HAMAS”.
Innocent people should not be vilified for just wanting to live their lives in peace.
The English language is great. If your friend was recently kicked out of their house by a Nazi and is arguing with them about it, you can see if things get violent and call out “hey, Nazi debater!” and they will both turn their heads, unsure if you’re talking to them or the other guy. Hilarity will ensue from this small confusion, and all will end well.
That having been said, the Nazi will still conveniently forget all their country’s history, will declare they are the “pure” or “chosen” ones, and proceed to cleanse the ones that don’t fit their world view, including your friend.