• Akisamb@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      17
      ·
      11 months ago

      They don’t want to kill all Jews. They want the expulsion of all Jews from Israel/Palestine. At least according to their original manifesto, they’ve changed it to remove this part to be fair.

      It can be argued that the Israeli government wants the same thing for the Palestinians.

      • Rapidcreek@reddthat.comOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        21
        arrow-down
        15
        ·
        11 months ago

        “rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea” … “the Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them.”

        Hamas’ 1988 charter

        • Akisamb@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          11 months ago

          Thanks I was too lazy to find the exact citation.

          Do you see the difference between what you said and their charter ? What Hamas wants is awful enough, no need to exaggerate.

          • boyi@lemmy.sdf.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            OP is misleading. Hamas has a new 2017 charter, which has change a lot. As far as I can remember, they had alterd their demand/charter, where the main clause is to have the Israel/Palestine border to be as of 1967.

          • Rapidcreek@reddthat.comOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            20
            ·
            11 months ago

            When they say kill jews they mean all, everywhere. They’ve even stated this to the press.

              • Lynthe@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                11 months ago

                Oh that’s all? Thank goodness forcible displacement using coercive threats on a civilian population isnt a war crime. I don’t understand why you are splitting hairs on the goals of this openly genocidal group. Supporting Palestinians doesn’t mean you have to go to bat for Hamas.

                • Akisamb@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  Where do you see that I’m supporting them? I literally reiterated in many comments that what they want is a war crime. No need to invent some other objectives they are plenty awful enough.

                  Truth matters, especially in conflicts like this.

                • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  arrow-down
                  7
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  Actually resisting oppression and removing the oppressors from your land is indeed not a war crime.

                  Just like how the Ukrainians have the right to expell the Russians colonizing Crimea.

                  • Lynthe@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    It really didn’t take much to get you in the mood to justify a targeted attack on civilians did it. I’m consistent in my view that it’s wrong to murder civilians, but it doesn’t seem like you are.

              • Rapidcreek@reddthat.comOP
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                15
                ·
                11 months ago

                You really want me to give you recent quotes from their leaders? You want to look that stupid?

                • Akisamb@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  11 months ago

                  Well yes ? How else would you want to do this. I just gave you an example of a senior Hamas officer saying kill all Jews and Hamas saying they do not agree.

                  I have no doubt Hamas leadership is a bunch of genocidal maniacs but their official stance has been in the past the forceful displacement and nowadays it’s the return to pre 1967 borders. They are ready to admit to the existence of Israel, not by pleasure mind you, but their official stance nowadays is that they are partially open to a two state solution if the right to return is put in place.

                  This might be a bunch of lies, but it is their official position.

      • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        11 months ago

        Given that Jews are not likely to voluntarily leave Israel, this is de facto a call to violently expel or kill all Jews in the area, which is nearly half of the world’s Jews.

        While yes, going from “Kill all Jews” to just “Kill half of all Jews” is an improvement, it’s still not “let’s all hold hands and find a way to get along!”. This isn’t to say that the Israeli far right is all that much better really, though they’re better at knowing what parts to say out loud.

        • Akisamb@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          11 months ago

          Yes it is a clear war crime don’t get me wrong. But exaggeration has no use when reality is awful enough.

          Hamas is a terrorist organisation that will not hesitate to kill civilians to achieve their ideals. They do not publicly at least want to kill all Jews.

          • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            11 months ago

            TBF, so is the IDF. They have killed, what, nearly 20,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children non-combatants, since they declared war on Gaza? They claim to care about not killing civilians, but they sure aren’t putting a lot of effort into not killing them.

            What’s a reasonable ratio of combatants to non-combatants killed? 1:1? 1:10? If Israel has to kill one hundred civilians in order to kill a single Hamas militant, is that acceptable?

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              11 months ago

              Hamas civilian casualty rate on Oct7 was around 3/4 civilians to IDF, with 29/1200 children deaths.

              This is better than the US avarage of 9/10. Israel is guessed to be around 99/100 and 6000/18000 children deaths.

          • Rapidcreek@reddthat.comOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            17
            arrow-down
            16
            ·
            11 months ago

            “rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea” … “the Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them.”

            Hamas’ 1988 charter

            • blahsay@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              14
              arrow-down
              11
              ·
              11 months ago

              This is hilarious.

              Hamas ball fondler: Hamas doesn’t want to kill all Jews

              Someone: Here’s the Hamas charter where they literally say the want to kill the Jews.

              Hamas ball fondler: Well that is devastating to my argument so I’m choosing to ignore it

              😂

              • Machinist3359@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                13
                arrow-down
                6
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                Y’all are conveniently ignoring the fact that this an outdated charter and can’t find such language in the new one. Just another day clocking in to the genocide defence factory, don’t forget the emojis.

                • blahsay@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  10
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  This one’s for you Hamas ball fondler:

                  Reporter: So you removed ‘kill the Jews’ from your charter.

                  Hamas: Yes Dave from accounting slipped that in there.

                  Reporter: So you don’t want to kill all the Jews now?

                  Hamas: That’s right 😉.

                  Reporter: Did you wink at me?

                  Hamas: Of course I didn’t! 😉

                  Reporter: There you did it again!

                  Hamas: Look now we definitely don’t want to kill Jews 😉

                  Reporter: I’m beginning to think you want to attack the Jews! Did Dave get punished at least?

                  Hamas: Promoted actually.

                  Reporter: Why did you even bother changing your charter then?

                  Hamas: It made it easier to get rubes cough ball fondlers cough…I mean supporters.

                  😂

                  • bustrpoindextr@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    11 months ago

                    It’s also interesting that Hamas literally calls for genocide or in their more “PR friendly” new draft only ethnic cleansing, and then Hamas ball garglers claim Israel is commiting genocide.

                    Don’t get me wrong, there have been war crimes, collective punishment is a war crime. But it’s not genocide.