Or is that more of a stereotype, and there are some (maybe more?) out there using some form of graphical interfaces/web dashboards/etc.?
It’s struck me as interesting how when you look up info about managing servers that they primarily go through command-line interfaces/terminals/etc. It’s made me wonder how much of that’s preference and how much of it’s an absence of graphical interfaces.
Software engineer here who works on web services. Most production-critical things in our workplace aren’t managed by GUI’s, or command lines… but by code. There are usually some infrastructure-as-code tools involved, like Terraform, CDK or Pulumi.
GUI’s are often reserved for quick fixes and trying out things on staging servers (derisively called “click-ops”).
Chef, Puppet, Ansible, SaltStack, even Otter (for Windows).
For smaller servers/services, they are plenty of admins still getting their hands dirty in a shell (for instance my home lab is a baremetal hypervisor with a few hosts and a whole load of Docker containers).
But in business environments, especially those using cloud providers, infrastructure as code is king.
I’m looking to rise up from the hell desk, I have an enterprise grade server sitting collecting dust at the moment (heat issue, not on the server, just the average ambient temperature is uncomfortable without it running is too much) but its running unraid at the moment and not much else.
Any suggestions on where to start with infrastructure as code?
Google “Terraform homelab” and read a few guides on how to use Proxmox, Terraform, Ansible, Puppet, cloud-init, Packer, etc.
A great starting point is being able to write some code that will consistently build a homelab setup, perhaps running a few useful services like Snapdrop, Pihole, OpenVAS, Etherpad Lite, etc. The goal being capable of standing everything up and tearing it down using Terraform and Proxmox (Terraform instructing Proxmox to create VMs and Ansible to configure those VMs with what you need).
There are loads of similar solutions (such as Ansible and Puppet) so don’t be scared of trying a few different guides and wiping the server a few times along the way. It’ll give you a strong understanding of the various tools and, once you’ve done it a few times, you can land on your preferred setup and start building your own use cases for it all.
Hope this helps!
Much appreciated. Just needed some phrases to throw in a search engine to get started.
It is far from a stereotype, and most times it isn’t personal preference either.
It is just about using the best tool for the job.
Many tasks can be done either this or that way, but one of the ways is usually much faster, or repeatable/scriptable, or easier to make mistakes etc.
GUIs are very limiting. You’re only able to do what the designer wants you to be able to. By using the terminal it’s much simpler to do more complicated tasks (once you’ve gotten past the learning curve).
Also since so many servers are headless (no display outputs) they’ll be remotely logged into, meaning there’s only a terminal to interface with the machine.
This can be true. Part of the reason I ask is that as more data is visual in nature, it seems like it might make it more difficult to manage strictly via CLI, especially since metadata is likely to be lacking in description and even with a descriptive filename and details, it’s a picture/video for a reason.
I’m sure there are existing arrangements to handle that though, like web GUIs for any visual media review as needed.
Can you give me an example? Sure graphs are quick to spot spikes and such, but outside a webui like you mentioned servers also usually have warning triggers, you know what’s better than staring at a graph looking for a spike? Getting paged once a spike happens with information on possible causes and the state of the server. That’s very difficult to setup using GUIs, but almost trivial to do if your okay with CLIs.
It’s more on the hobbyist end of things, but as an example I was thinking like if you had a server you’re using to back up or store photos on, trying to parse it strictly via CLI doesn’t seem like it’d be terribly useful.
You’d also want to view the images directly, I’d think, but I’m guessing in that situation you’d just use whatever web UI the software you’re using might provide.
I have a server I use among other things to backup my photos, I don’t understand what you mean by “parse”, but I administer my photos through my file explorer as if they were on my computer, because I configured the server to expose a samba share on the folder that I have the pictures.
You got the gist enough despite the term I used & answered what I was wondering about (as did the other person replying), so I appreciate it! Parse was just another way of trying to say see the file in full, filename, additional metadata, & content. With visual media I’d think you’d have to do like you (& they) said, configure it to be opened via something else for a comprehensive review.
I tend to work with visual media more, so for me a CLI feels like more of a backwards approach to navigation & data management.
Yeah, makes sense, however to setup good structure for being able to do that you’ll need CLI, e.g. if you want programs that administer photos and allow you to create albums and set tags, I personally don’t need that level of organisation, but if this is your main use you might want to invest the time to setup something like Lychee or piwigo, which are easily setup through docker (which if you’re into self hosting you should learn).
Viewing the images directly sounds to me like a different context. Browsing the images is more akin to end user activity, i.e. using the server for its intended purpose. Managing the server is more like making sure it’s running, that there is enough space allocated, security holes are plugged, software is up-to-date, etc. Administrative tasks. When wearing the admin hat, there wouldn’t usually be much of a need to actually look at the photos - you’d be more concerned with file names and metadata, not contents. In that context, the GUI becomes less important. And if you ever do need to see them, you can always fire up the GUI software for that occasional situation.
It used to be 100% command line. Now it’s 80% shell and 20% web portals.
No it’s legit. Most servers nowadays are Linux so if you’re working on a specific server you are using the command line.
It’s way more efficient generally.
GUI can be great for quick specific tasks but you are limited by the features added by the software.
Speaking from ~20 years experience: Yes, mainly. But both GUIs and web dashboards are common and widespread. It varies wildly based on what type of server you’re maintaining and what type of organization you’re in.
If you run a custom Minecraft server via some online service, you’ll be going through a web dashboard.
Typical corporate or government IT tends to be Windows/GUI based, but of course with as much automation as possible in the form of global policy settings.
Typical small web development shop tends to be via code configuration and web dashboards on rented hosts.
Typical SAAS-provider type company tends to be strictly command-line but as little as possible, and try to have everything via configuration, rules, deployment scripts, etc checked into a version control system.
It’s extremely varied, but to my understanding it is correct that command line is most common.
Depends on the kind of server - Linux, yes, command line all the way. Windows (and Active Directory and other Microsoft stuff) you use GUI mostly in combination with some PowerShell scripts (often running on the “command line”).
There are still people running Windows Servers? An Active Directory Domain Controller can easily be set up on Linux.
Yep, many corporates.
At my work it’s all command line or inside the code Itself. No need to be scared of the cli.
For a single new problem that hasn’t yet been automated I use CLI utilities to collect information to use to write code for a new automation.
I use web UIs to monitor metrics (grafana) and write custom exporters to collect metrics that can show performance or potential issues and logs.
Yes I personally find it much quicker running a few commands via SSH and editing Docker compose files in a text editor than clicking around in some kind of web interface. It’s also much easier asking for help or helping someone else I you can just send commands to execute instead of explaining different menus and buttons they need to go into.
You can’t really do configuration management with a GUI. Or version control. Everything I do I manage with Ansible as much as possible. YAML is self-documenting as well. How much effort is ‘run command with parameter’ documentation vs explaining how to navigate a GUI?
How much effort is ‘run command with parameter’ documentation […]
Tbh it’s less so the effort and moreso, how understandable is the documentation? A good GUI has the benefit of visual design explaining without words what may take a lot of documentation that may or may not be easily understood depending on the writer, which in many technical situations is someone deep in the jargon that has forgotten the way back to more accessible language.
Once you’re familiar with the commands, no doubt as many others have said it’s more efficient (especially once you’re knowledgeable enough to write scripts for frequent sets of commands), but there is a learning curve at play as one muddles through documentation in a similar way to an unfamiliar GUI.
If you understand that the terminal is better in the long run then you answered your own question, most people who fiddle with servers do so for a long time so the time investment is worth it. A similar analogy is learning knife skills, if you just cook for yourself being able to chop an onion in seconds saves you a minute a day from the one onion you used, not really worth outside being a neat party trick. But if you work in a kitchen that’s mandatory, chopping an onion in seconds means you save an hour for the 60 onions you chop in preparation for the service. Same idea for GUIs/terminal, it has a higher learning curve but if you try to avoid the curve you’ll never be able to do it fast, so the time investment is worth it if you’re going to be doing this daily (like most server admins do)
Same idea for GUIs/terminal, it has a higher learning curve but if you try to avoid the curve you’ll never be able to do it fast, so the time investment is worth it if you’re going to be doing this daily (like most server admins do)
Yeah, part of the thinking behind this question was with those doing this more as a hobby in mind (e.g. self-hosters) where it’s sort of a limbo. You may be doing it daily as part of your hobby, but also never on the level that really demands the degree of proficiency or efficiency you describe as you’re not going to be casually handling a large network of servers (probably), so on one hand learning the CLI may simply be part of the fun, but on the other, it may also lean into overkill depending on what you’re aiming to do.
I think it’s still worth learning it as a hobbitst, same thing as the knife skills for someone who likes to cook, you don’t need to be super proficient with a knife, but the basics of knife skills will up your cooking by a lot, at some point you’ll reach diminishing returns and you’ll stop learning, but the basic is almost essential. Same thing for CLI, you don’t need to become a master in the command line, but being comfortable around it will help you a lot. In other words, trying to run a server without CLI is like trying to cook without a knife, is it possible? Depending on what you’re trying to do yes but in general you’re shooting yourself in the foot, just because a blender can replace a knife in some instances doesn’t mean you can use it for all of the same things you would use a knife, a GUI is the blender of servers, it makes some things easier but is not as versatile.
No, any documentation >>> GUI. GUI relies on your previous experience with similar environments. Just jump into a GUI of Visual Studio (not code) project configuration and see for yourself.
You can’t really do configuration management with a GUI.
Cries in Windows Server
Simple answer, yes
Personally, it’s the power of powershell that I use for the hundreds of windows servers. Otherwise it’s the power of Linux bash shell scripts for the dozens of Linux servers. None of the Linux servers run a gui so there’s no options there. Tbh for me, self documenting gui is the slowest way to do work. Configuring hundreds at once with peer reviewed scripts and change control is much more effective since the peer review and change control will be needed either way.
Oh though I use fortimanager a lot of configuring dozens of Fortigates. Only have a few scripts on it though.
Yes, I manage my Raspberry Pi Plex/Pi-Hole/OpenVPN server using command line because, well, it’s Linux.
Also for work I manage Windows Server based systems and although this is a largely GUI based operating system, Command Prompt/Powershell are still tools I use daily to provide more control and depth over what I can do (bulk admin actions, for example).
I don’t really use command line out of preference - moreso because it’s the necessary tool for the job.
You can accomplish a lot through scripting - light programming. Anything you can type into a command line can also be executed by a script. This is the power of them. So when managing large arrays of resources, the potential for automation and scaling effort is big.
I don’t think all of that can be replaced with GUIs. When you consider that sysadmins are working with tons of different software from many different providers and trying to make it all work together, the command line interface is really the common language they all share - even the bulllshit legacy products that are still hanging around after 15 years of being outdated. You’d need extremely sophisticated GUI tools to be able to do everything, across all these products, at scale.
There are of course GUI tools for specific tasks, but the command line is the foundational tool.
Disclaimer: I know fuck all about Microsoft things. Only have some experienc with *nix
Both, actually. 95% web-GUI, and if something goes wrong, a bit of ssh.
