Police in Michigan say a startling discovery was made on the roof of a Michigan grocery store: A woman was living inside the store sign for roughly a year.
cops and business owners in this situation actually seem to have behaved in a very humane and decent way
Well it’s nice that they didn’t beat her to death. But they still kicked her out and didn’t actually provide any more help. “Services in the area” probably will be less adequate than what she’d had before they booted her.
I don’t expect them to actually take care of her, but they don’t get a gold star for declining to bludgeon, strangle, or imprison her. She’s on her own.
I mean, I would add on not sticking her with a criminal charge as an important thing they didn’t do here, because the whole story of “oh you missed a court date because we sent the notice to an address you haven’t lived at in years, so now we’re fining you on top of the original criminal charge that brought you in here, [soon] wow, you’ve got a lot of missed court dates and unpaid fines, you look like a career criminal who needs the book thrown at them” happens a lot,
And there’s a very real chance that the contractors looked the other way and then this woman’s residence got discovered they could have lost their licenses or otherwise gotten in trouble
Like, I think what you’re pointing out is a really important perspective and we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that a woman with a home was made homeless here, but I think a lot of relatively powerless people here tried to be as humane as an inhumane system would let them be, and I think that’s important too. I think the way this world gets less shitty is when more people start making these little steps towards revolutionary kindness and then those little steps start getting bigger and bigger.
Again, it’s not praiseworthy that they merely declined to abuse her. I’m not scorning them, but they get zero credit for declining to abuse her (beyond the abuse of kicking her out with no help).
there’s a very real chance that the contractors looked the other way
Without evidence, there’s no point in this speculation unless you’re hired by their PR to praise them (which seems unlikely).
the way this world gets less shitty is when more people start making these little steps towards revolutionary kindness and then those little steps start getting bigger and bigger
Sorry, but this is absolute nonsense. It’s meaningless. She is homeless.
a woman with a home was made homeless
This is the only story. Let’s not waste time praising the heroic saints who kicked her out.
There was no measure of good whatsoever. Her situation was made objectively worse, and we’re presuming to praise those responsible merely for not making it even more worse. I’m not the one who created any doom or gloom. I didn’t kick her out. And it’s not cynical to sympathize with the homeless woman instead of with the people who kicked her out. Mate.
And she’s also a homeless woman. Women need private spaces when they are homeless, they can’t just be on the street as safely as men are. They space was probably VERY safe for her compared to a shelter.
So you’re saying it would have been better for her if she was charged with crimes? She would be stuck with fines and probably jail time. You do realize SHE was breaking multiple laws by being there right? So yeah, it is a small measure of good because they looked the other way rather than filing charges.
Ok, so in your eyes it’s the same as if they pressed charges? Which they absolutely could have done since she was stealing power from them for over a year and trespassing.
I agree it sucks, but they can’t reasonably let her continue living there after they found out. There’s so many legal and ethical issues with that. They are not qualified to provide housing. We need to provide better alternatives.
The ethical problems are that it’s not designed to be lived in, so it’s probably not safe. It’s also an ethical problem to kick her out without a safety net, but there’s plenty of reasons why I could think of that would make it not OK for her to be there.
We aren’t talking about a toxic waste dump or a steel mill. This is a grocery store attic.
I’d agree that if they rented the space to her that would be unethical as they aren’t providing essential utilities like water and sewage. However, this location was likely safer and more private for her than camping out on the street. Her situation was not improved by being evicted. She was harmed. That’s why it’s unethical to evict on discovery.
‘That likely’ so you’ve decided based on nothing except your preconceived opinions which are likely based in the first place on nothing more than ‘it makes me feel good to believe this’
Would you like the officer to take a second mortgage out on his home and build her a room on his house? The system is broken, the cop did his best to not make it worse.
I’m not blaming the cop. But I’m also not praising him. Nobody here helped the woman. Let’s just lament her homelessness without weirdly congratulating the people who kicked her out.
You know back during the Great Depression, we used to let widows buy their homes for pennies rather than let them be homeless. It’s sad that these days, our sense of community is so fucked that people would pick profit over making sure everyone in their community has a house.
They behaved kindly because they were in the wrong - it’s almost certain that if they’d used force and she’d resisted that it’d end up in front of a judge and she would be able to claim the area as a residence.
Correct, and Squatter’s Rights are meant to apply to properties abandoned by their owners, i.e. they’re meant to prevent absentee landowners from just hoarding buildings wherever and never visiting or maintaining them. Or traditionally, if a property owner has died with no next of kin, or someone believed they inherited a property from a dead relative and this was not contested. Somebody simply hiding in a thoroughly used and very much frequented and maintained building in such a way that they’ve managed to escape notice for some amount of time doesn’t allow them to magically put the deed in their name.
To make a successful claim this woman would have had to occupy the premises for 15 years, or do so for 10 years while also paying the property taxes on it. Further, their occupation has to be “open and notorious,” i.e. it cannot be in secret (she failed that requirement right off the bat) and occupation must be exclusive, i.e. others don’t have access to the property. That requirement was obviously failed as well.
Well it’s nice that they didn’t beat her to death. But they still kicked her out and didn’t actually provide any more help. “Services in the area” probably will be less adequate than what she’d had before they booted her.
I don’t expect them to actually take care of her, but they don’t get a gold star for declining to bludgeon, strangle, or imprison her. She’s on her own.
I mean, I would add on not sticking her with a criminal charge as an important thing they didn’t do here, because the whole story of “oh you missed a court date because we sent the notice to an address you haven’t lived at in years, so now we’re fining you on top of the original criminal charge that brought you in here, [soon] wow, you’ve got a lot of missed court dates and unpaid fines, you look like a career criminal who needs the book thrown at them” happens a lot,
And there’s a very real chance that the contractors looked the other way and then this woman’s residence got discovered they could have lost their licenses or otherwise gotten in trouble
Like, I think what you’re pointing out is a really important perspective and we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that a woman with a home was made homeless here, but I think a lot of relatively powerless people here tried to be as humane as an inhumane system would let them be, and I think that’s important too. I think the way this world gets less shitty is when more people start making these little steps towards revolutionary kindness and then those little steps start getting bigger and bigger.
Again, it’s not praiseworthy that they merely declined to abuse her. I’m not scorning them, but they get zero credit for declining to abuse her (beyond the abuse of kicking her out with no help).
Without evidence, there’s no point in this speculation unless you’re hired by their PR to praise them (which seems unlikely).
Sorry, but this is absolute nonsense. It’s meaningless. She is homeless.
This is the only story. Let’s not waste time praising the heroic saints who kicked her out.
mate it’s ok and good to acknowledge a small measure of good that may exist in a very terrible situation.
humans are not meant to focus on only the doom, gloom, and cynicism of it all 100% of the time.
Meant by whom?
nature. our brains get fucked up when stuck in the doom and gloom for too long.
pedantry is an ugly quality btw.
There was no measure of good whatsoever. Her situation was made objectively worse, and we’re presuming to praise those responsible merely for not making it even more worse. I’m not the one who created any doom or gloom. I didn’t kick her out. And it’s not cynical to sympathize with the homeless woman instead of with the people who kicked her out. Mate.
And she’s also a homeless woman. Women need private spaces when they are homeless, they can’t just be on the street as safely as men are. They space was probably VERY safe for her compared to a shelter.
So you’re saying it would have been better for her if she was charged with crimes? She would be stuck with fines and probably jail time. You do realize SHE was breaking multiple laws by being there right? So yeah, it is a small measure of good because they looked the other way rather than filing charges.
They didn’t look the other way. They kicked her out. And I don’t blame them. But neither do I praise them or call them good.
Ok, so in your eyes it’s the same as if they pressed charges? Which they absolutely could have done since she was stealing power from them for over a year and trespassing.
“Not worse” is different from “better”, how is this a difficult concept?
What an ignorant take.
Yours? I agree.
No u
This is where it’s at in the US: people feel a warm sense of happiness when a marginalized person isnt beaten to death or shot by authorities.
I agree it sucks, but they can’t reasonably let her continue living there after they found out. There’s so many legal and ethical issues with that. They are not qualified to provide housing. We need to provide better alternatives.
Legal problems? Yes. Ethical problems? Fuck no.
She was living rent free pulling resources from a company that likely fights against social programs for homelessness. That, to me, 1000% ethical.
It would only be unethical if the US has an adequate social safety net.
The ethical problems are that it’s not designed to be lived in, so it’s probably not safe. It’s also an ethical problem to kick her out without a safety net, but there’s plenty of reasons why I could think of that would make it not OK for her to be there.
We aren’t talking about a toxic waste dump or a steel mill. This is a grocery store attic.
I’d agree that if they rented the space to her that would be unethical as they aren’t providing essential utilities like water and sewage. However, this location was likely safer and more private for her than camping out on the street. Her situation was not improved by being evicted. She was harmed. That’s why it’s unethical to evict on discovery.
‘That likely’ so you’ve decided based on nothing except your preconceived opinions which are likely based in the first place on nothing more than ‘it makes me feel good to believe this’
I never suggested they should let her stay there. But they don’t get a gold star for kicking her out nicely either.
I think it’s sad af, if she was a bird or raccoon they’d let her stay. We give people less dignity than a bird.
Eh, you should see the lengths people will go to to get rid of birds.
Would you like the officer to take a second mortgage out on his home and build her a room on his house? The system is broken, the cop did his best to not make it worse.
I’m not blaming the cop. But I’m also not praising him. Nobody here helped the woman. Let’s just lament her homelessness without weirdly congratulating the people who kicked her out.
Agree
Cop shoulda pulled one of these
https://youtu.be/pMd4S-LkywI
You know back during the Great Depression, we used to let widows buy their homes for pennies rather than let them be homeless. It’s sad that these days, our sense of community is so fucked that people would pick profit over making sure everyone in their community has a house.
They behaved kindly because they were in the wrong - it’s almost certain that if they’d used force and she’d resisted that it’d end up in front of a judge and she would be able to claim the area as a residence.
How exactly are they in the wrong?
There are laws about squatters rights in the US and they likely qualified under them.
I would be extremely surprised if squatters rights apply to a commercial business premises.
Correct, and Squatter’s Rights are meant to apply to properties abandoned by their owners, i.e. they’re meant to prevent absentee landowners from just hoarding buildings wherever and never visiting or maintaining them. Or traditionally, if a property owner has died with no next of kin, or someone believed they inherited a property from a dead relative and this was not contested. Somebody simply hiding in a thoroughly used and very much frequented and maintained building in such a way that they’ve managed to escape notice for some amount of time doesn’t allow them to magically put the deed in their name.
To make a successful claim this woman would have had to occupy the premises for 15 years, or do so for 10 years while also paying the property taxes on it. Further, their occupation has to be “open and notorious,” i.e. it cannot be in secret (she failed that requirement right off the bat) and occupation must be exclusive, i.e. others don’t have access to the property. That requirement was obviously failed as well.
Relevant statute:
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-600-5801