I saw an article about them attacking Lebanon now. So, where will it stop? Have the Israeli government ever spoken about this?
I saw an article about them attacking Lebanon now. So, where will it stop? Have the Israeli government ever spoken about this?
This is the most reasonable approach, but as seen with the UN, wich as the sum of its parts failed to keep dictatorships out wich now basically control everything but the security Council and the ICJ, its a Utopist approach sadly. There cant be a peace unless Israel takes over Palestine and treats the people that live there now as equal (wich they do already btw, the myth about apartheid is BS there are many Arab Palestinians living in Israel and many went to work in Israel from gaza) but the problem with the surrounding terrorists is another problem.
The claim of Israeli apartheid does not pertain to the status of Israeli Arabs fyi. It pertains to de facto Israeli control of Gaza and the West Bank, where any time they want the IDF can exercise as much control as they want, by virtue of superior firepower.
Hamas, for instance, only persisted because the Israelis allowed it. Israel controlled the majority of access to the regions, and could and did unilaterally police them with military force at will.
Yeah shure because Hamas isnt constantly firing rockets into Israel… If there is a defakto control how exactly would the 7th October have happened…
This is just idiotic.
De facto control does not mean 100% control over every event that happens. People are still humans, and capable of making errors. It is not mind reading/mind control powers, those are still impossible.
Yeah shure…
Israel has defakto 0 control over Gaza except for the borders normally. Everything inside is controlled by Hamas. And if you think otherwise you have never been there and you don’t know anything about it.
Except they would routinely send in military forces to capture terrorist suspects in a process they referred to as “mowing the grass”. It’s even more pronounced in the West Bank, where the Israeli settlements are thoroughly intermingled with the Palestinian ones, and the Palestinians had relatively few powers over their own security.
It’s not a simple thing, unfortunately. Middle Eastern politics seldom are, just in general.
The civilians in Palestinia in general are victims, thats clear, but the reason they are is hamas and the narrative they propagate about the victim hood that got somehow transferred through generations just as their state as refugees would have according to them.
But yes the settlement thing is a shitshow, but nither side recognized the existence of the other and both claim the possession of the entire area, however, Israel clearly has more rights to it due to the fact that the people in Gaza and the other parts aren’t the people that lived there before Israel, they are mostly the descendants of the Arabs that attacked Israel shortly after it was declared a state, with the intention of a genocide. The original Palestinians live in Israel (many of them btw killed on the 7th October pogrom/genocide attempt) and have the same rights as the Christians, jews and everyone else, Israel is a super diverse country with lots of immigrants from all over the world. The claims about apartheid by Hamas (supported by un) are absolutely outlandish and just not true.
Oh and… When you have terrorists as you neighborhood you gotta make shure they don’t plot teroristic shit and remove the ones that do. That doesn’t mean anything about control thats just trying to keep a never ending Forrest fire within certain boundaries.
The claim of Israeli apartheid is not a hamas claim, it’s acknowledged by various Israelis as well. Neither Gaza nor, especially the West Bank, has had full independence in many years.
Note, I am not talking about any Israeli citizens. I am talking about Israeli non-citizens who live under Israeli restrictions and off-and-on military control. This is the nature of apartheid. A people that is separate, but not fully independent. An in-between state of conquest, where you’re sort-of conquered but not really and have some, but not full, freedoms.
Uhhh autonomous regions that don’t see themselves as part of a country and behave like that are obviously not treated like citizens… Thats not apartheid thats common sense. And Israel blockade of Gaza is 100% justified because hamas uses basically everything as weapon transport.
I mean if you born in Gaza your birth needs to be registered with Israel. Otherwise you will lack the necessary documents to get through the checkpoints.
Obviously, Gaza or Palestinia in general doesn’t give out recognized papers. Its a autonomous region for a reason.
They wouldn’t be allowed to enter any other country without said documents either.
There is no actual reason why it should ne otherwise.
“Autonomous region” is a technical label, but it does not negate the fact they don’t control their borders or who ultimately says their children are actual people.
The UN while created with noble intentions certainly fell for the paradox of tolerance. They tolerate the dictatorships and human rights abusers because if they didn’t they’d be much less empowered to take action against them, or worse they’d form their own competing UN made up of nations motivated to join them and you’d just end up with another NATO and Warsaw Pact for example. It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Ultimately the challenge comes down to how do you ultimately tame the leaders of the world who have absolute power. The founding fathers of the United States of America thought they had the solution with democracy and the many checks and balances they implemented into this new form of government they setup, but even that has its challenges and failures that they never could have forseen. The UN was the next experiment, trying to take the similar principles onto the world stage, and it’s been less successful (but at least has had some successes)
Yes absolutely but the dictatorships and shitshow countries (china for example) keep growing in numbers, if this trend isn’t reversed fast, UN fails as a whole and there is no saving.
It would be better in my opinion to have two options, democratic union and whatever the dictatorships do with each other, because the only thing that united them is being against democracy and Israel. UN, in my personal opinion, already failed as a whole and is beyond saving.
The big part of a government is, that it has power to enforce whatever it decides, UN gladly does not have any meaningful power, Israel would be gone by now otherwise.
Well those successes slowly but steadily crumble away, the most institutions have failed, WHO is doing its job only half assed (especially the making shure hospital aren’t used as military bases) the human rights Council is majorly filled with people that think human rights are shit and only need to apply it when it fits against the west or Israel specifically, the General Assembly is almost the same. (fun fact, the day of the Russian attack on Ukraine the general assembly voted about condemning Israel for something… Again. Most resolutions are against Israel.) Oh and the entire UNHWR wich is definitely more than partially responsible for hamas doing what they do.
UN isn’t even a diplomatic forum anymore.
The Apartheid is very much real, and, while to a much lesser extent than the Palestinian Occupied Territories, also applies to the Palestinian Citizens of Israel
Other reports about how Israel is an Apartheid State:
Human Rights Watch Report
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B'Tselem
I think you might need to read this i won’t read your comment or open those links, your sources are very openly and clearly biased and known to be very antisemitic and to hate Israel. There is nothing to gain from them.
Criticism of the Human Rights Abuses of the Israeli State and Anti-zionism are not antisemitism. You are choosing to be willfully ignorant. Israel does NOT represent all Jewish people, nor does their actions. There have been prominent Jewish people extremely critical of Zionism since it’s inception, are you seriously saying they are antisemitic too?
Israel is the one that intentionally conflates the two in order to deflect from criticizm. When Israel commits war crimes, or human rights abuses, or land grabbing, they are the ones that claim they do so for all Jewish people. When Zionist actions are criticized, they call it antisemitic. The conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic, as the actions of Israel in no way represent all Jewish people.
If you don’t want to be naive, I suggest you read the reports by human rights organizations. They are not antisemitic, unless you think advocates for a Secular Bi-National State with equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians is also antisemitic, which is insane.
Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace
2023 is ‘deadliest year’ for Palestinian children say human rights groups (Oct 6th)
HRW Events of 2022 and HRW Events of 2023
Jewish voice for peace is a super left wing anti Israel organization.
New Arab is a shitshow. Also yeah shure the 10k rockets hamas fired from gaza after 7th had a 20% failure rate… They are usually fired from residential areas or sometimes from school/hospitals. So yeah shure many gaza children died. “OH SAVE THE CHILDREN!” they screamed as they murdered children from another religion/ethnicity…
HRW again, im not reading that, i cant even, ive blocked their domains in my DNS due to given reason provided.
Oh and yes i absolutely see a two state solution as absolutely impossible and borderline Antisemitic currently (after 7th October)
As a person with jewish ancestry, what you are spewing makes me feel ill. Antizionism is not antisemitism. If it were, so many jews will be antisemitic? Please, grow up.
As a person with German ancestry i kindly don’t care if you personally are against it. Israel is a state and being for the abolishment of Israel is antisemitism, even from Jewish people.
Maybe learn about the history of a place outside of the Islamnazi propaganda.
Oh, I learned plenty, and not from Islamic centered resources. But you wouldn’t be able to discern it because you are speaking from hate, not from facts. Besides, there are many jewish academics who support Palestine and are against the genocide of Palestinians. And neither they nor I claim that supporting them is antisemitic or that it requires the genocide of the Israeli people. Only someone with a warped and dellusional understanding of history could make the claims you make.