I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
Shame there is no Graphene OS support for it
The biggest downside of Fairphone IMO is that they don’t maintain their hardware support in LineageOS and for the retail product then branch development off, add a bit of custom branding and adapt whatever Google requires these days. It would greatly improve custom ROM support in general.
Was thinking the same thing. Not Graphenes fault though but a failing of OEMs to provide what’s necessary.
And it doesn’t support US bands for TMobile
For 4G. 5G is fine.
no other manufacturer than google ever will have graphnene os support. their requirements cannot be met unless you are a tech gian, and with exceptionally good connections to the hardware manufacturers
Fairphone brand is basically saying to everyone “Hey look at our generic Android phone with everything you need from Google, including AI stuff and data collection” and when you ask if you can have a privacy friendly features they basically say “Nope, we just do a phone with replaceable parts, that’s all. Don’t ask for more”
And it would be such good marketing strategy “replaceable parts + privacy”
At least someone commented CalyxOS supports it which seems to be a good alternative to GrapheneOS
You could always go for /e/os though
Edit: Didn’t know it was this bad…
/e/os is a security dumpster fire. It’s even worse than stock Android. Stay away from it.
Can you explain?
Every other version of Android gets security updates out within a couple weeks of release at most.
/e/OS users are lucky if they get them within a couple months.
No offense, but that’s not what a security dumpster fire is. Security updates are important, of course, but they are also not the biggest deal.
In fact, I bet that the vast majority of users (on Android or otherwise) are lagging way behind in updates anyway.
So an OS that boasts about the “privacy” it offers… Doesn’t need routine and consistent security updates?
Sure thing bud, keep going on like you know what you’re talking about.
Generally speaking privacy and security are related but not really linked to each other. Google services might be very secure, but a privacy nightmare for example. In this particular case, even more, because the chances that using a “googled” phone will mean data collection (I.e. privacy issues) are almost certain, while the risks we are talking about are much more niche and - as I elaborated on another comment - in my opinion not really in most people threat model.
I would like to hear your perspective instead, because I am not really into using authority arguments, but as a security engineer I believe to at least understand well the issue with security updates, vulnerabilities and exploits. So yes, I do think to know what I am talking about.
That is not the only issue, it’s just one of the more major ones that shouldn’t be dismissed like it’s nothing. Another major one is the unlocked bootloader. You can take a look at all the Android ROMS here.
I think people should treat carefully when changing the OS of a mobile device. Changing your OS to something less secure just because you want to shove it to Google and Apple is not enough to warrant it. Better to stay with something safe that you know than with something insecure like /e/OS.
Luckily we have Graphene so you can actually switch to a more secure and private OS that is not made by an American corporation hungry for data.
/e/OS has official builds for the fairphones, you can re-lock the bootloader there, afaik. At least according to this: https://doc.e.foundation/devices/FP5/install
You can also buy the phone directly with /e/OS pre-installed & closed bootloader, from what I read on the fairphone website.
I am not dismissing it, I am saying that is not as big as you make it to be. Most users lag behind in updates anyway, besides using minimal and trusted applications, the outside exposure to exploitation is relatively small, for a device without a public address. I am not the one APTs are going to use the SMS no-click 0-day against.
Similarly for the bootloader issue. The kind of attacks mitigated by this are not in most people threat models. They just are not. As someone else wrote, it’s possible to relock the bootloader anyway with official builds (such as my FP3). But anyway, even for myself the chance that my phone gets modified by physical access without my knowledge is a fraction of a fraction compared to the chance that someone will snatch the phone in my hand while unlocked, for example (a recent pattern).
If these two issues are what prompts you to call a “security dumpster fire”, I would say we at least have very different risk perceptions.
good on you for asking the question. OP does not know what he is talking about
Thanks for the answer. How does it compare against other Android forks in terms of security update speed?
Also, isn’t Fairphone once also criticised for falling behind on Android security updates or was I misremembering this?
Also correct, though I am not particularly familiar with Fairphone. Seems like they are down to bimonthly updates, if that.
*We are including two months of security patching in a bi-monthly maintenance release.
That’s cool. Let me know when it gets support for GrapheneOS and finds it’s headphone jack again.
The answer is likley never, GOS devs dont trust Fairphone devs (due to poor security practices) and Fairphone devs are unwilling (in some cases unable) to meet the extremely high standards for GOS.
Big red flag:
Doesn’t that basically equate to “yep, this is an android phone?”
Yup. My current one is dying and I’m using it almost always wired to a charger or battery. I don’t care how badly they try to waste my battery, I’m not buying a new Android phone ever. If this one dies, I’m prepared to not use a phone until there’s a reasonably priced Linux phone.
Just replace the battery then. Most phone shops have the ability and tools to do it in about an hour to 3 hours.
I’m afraid. Lol phones with non replaceable batteries suck.
They are replaceable, it just takes some tools and work, both of which you can get at the phone repair shop.
What a non sequitur.
GrapheneOS doesn’t have AI crap.
I’d just install another OS to begin with. But again, I’d reaaally like it to be GrapheneOS. And then again, Pixels also come with all that crap (and much more) enabled by default.
Graphene doesn’t. The way I see it is like buying a laptop with pre-installed Windows, and replacing the OS.
… That’s because it comes with vanilla android, unless you buy the e/OS version or flash it yourself
I really wish this was available in the US. I’ve found myself able to hang on to devices longer and longer. So this would be perfect. I’m only charging my battery to 80% and discharging it to 30% before charging it again just to prolong the life of the battery because that’s the first thing that dies on most devices. Having a user replaceable battery again would be an absolute godsend.
This is a 50% DoD and is considered best possible practice to prevent lithium-ion dendrite formation.
Updoot for good advice.
Proof:
If you don’t mind clarifying, what do you mean by DoD?
Depth of Discharge, sorry – 0 to 100 would be a 100% depth (the entire battery), 30 to 80 is 50%.
What kind of software creates this plot?
Looks like AccuBattery.
It’s AccuBattery
ThanCC!
Missed opportunity to call it “AkkuBattery” for all the dual language pun enjoyers out there 🎩
The really nice thing is that the larger phone batteries get the more you get to use at 50% depth of discharge. My phone is 5,000 mAh and so I get to use 2,500 mAh of it. Once average phones start getting 5,500 mAh, that will mean I will be able to use 2,750 mAh. 250mAh may not sound like a lot, but it can go a decently long way.
This is a 50% DoD and is considered best possible practice to prevent lithium-ion dendrite formation.
Not entirely true. “Best possible” would be left plugged in and charged to 50%. Next best would be 49-51%. Then 48-52% and so on.
Also it’s not that difficult or expensive to swap a battery and not really worth the stress, in my opinion.
Well, you are absolutely correct. A 1-2% DoD is something for like, the Voyager Probe though, not a smartphone :)
I’m interested in this one also. I like the look of it. Currently a long-time Pixel user, but I’m open to other options. It will take a truly good camera to pull me away, though.
Sometimes last year Marquez Brownlee (I think it was him, I don’t think it was Dave2D) was conducting a blind test among his audience which Photos they thought looked best. Some top brands were jumping up and down from one test scenario to another but the Fairphone ended up in the midfield constantly. True, that’s not a glowing recommendation of the camera but at least an insurance that one doesn’t get utter trash either.
Do you recall which ones scored the highest?
iirc, it’s typically the pixel a series, normal pixel series, the most expensive iPhone, and the Samsung flagship (or smth like that)
The Pixels tend to give really punchy contrast which a lot of people like
Not off the top of my head but I distinctly remember that the Pixel A phone scored higher than the flagship Pixel model.
I would need to look the video up but I’m also between appointments, so I can comment for a bit but not do research.
could habe been this one?
Do you happen to know whether this was before or after the camera update? The camera has been noticeably improved at some point.
Not off the top of my head, sorry.
That’s honestly one thing I’m really glad about. I’m legally blind, so pictures don’t honestly matter that much to me, and so I could really give a fuck less what the camera looks like as long as it functions well enough to act as a magnifier for me to read small print on things occasionally.
Like if I go pick up one of those frozen pizzas from the store and I need to read the box to know what temperature to set the oven to and how long to put it in. I use the camera to just zoom in on the print and read it and then leave the camera.
the camera is average. Don’t buy this phone for the camera
Are you using something to automate that? If so what? Does it require root?
Several Android manufacturers have their own settings in the OS for battery longevity (automatic schedule based smart charging, or charging limits)
Don’t think it’s native in Android. Charging limits need support in the charging controller chip, plus driver support in the OS.
So my device settings have the functionality built in to stop charging automatically when the battery hits a certain percentage. And so I have set it to stop charging automatically at 81%. I also use BatteryBot Pro from F-Droid to alert me when the battery rises above 80% or drops below 30%
There’s other phones with user replaceable batteries. I looked it up a month or so ago. They’re not as ethical as fairphone, but still better than my drawer of working phones with dead batteries.
Phones like the Galaxy Active which have terrible hardware to make them entirely unappealing outside of that one crucial feature. They do this on purpose.
Yeah, same here honestly. For real, I wish it was available in the US too
I hope Graphene eventually shifts to support the fairphones. Doubtful, but it’d be perfect
If we could get a Fairphone with GrapheneOS, that would be the perfect phone for me. Repairability & the most secure and private Android. Sign me up!
Hows their secure boot?
I would totally be interested if they had solid Linux support, such as postmarketOS or mobian. Those systems continue to get updates long after most Android devices stop supplying updates, so it would fit really well with a repairable phone. It shouldn’t be the default, but it would be awesome if they helped the Linux phone community make it the best supported hardware for the various Linux phone projects.
According to the postmarketOS wiki, audio is completely broken, so you have to use Bluetooth. That kind of sucks.
Bring back the headphone jack & we’ll be happy.
Next up, make the phone compatible with Linux OSs
We can but hope. I have a dongle that plugs into my charging point to make it a headphone jack, but it’s not the same
I recently went through that dongle buying experience. Having to get the correct DAC and amplifier chipset so the sound won’t be too low is annoying. For the record I ended up going with one that has the CX31993 DAC and the MAX97220 amplifier, it doesn’t have a real name so I’ll just give a link: https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008755907868.html. It is a bit louder than my first impulsive buy, but I haven’t tested the microphone yet.
Thanks for the link!
This would’ve been my new phone if it had a headphone jack.
From an environmental standpoint it doesn’t make any sense to drop it. More batteries, more e waste
Really sad they dropped it
I’m using this phone right now and I love it. it feels solid. Im using a degoogled ROM and it just works, there seems to be a lot of people pressing for graphene os specifically and discrediting the phone for what it is. its so easy to take apart and cheaply repair its great. it’s perfect for folk who want a decent smartphone that you dont have to worry about being thrown around. sure it’s not perfect but it is still a very good
I have been shopping for a rom for my FP. Which are you running?
I use CalyxOS on mine. It has microG all working by default so if you need that sort of thing it’s probably the easiest way to get it up and running
calyx os is what I use
What’s the cost to replace a cracked screen?
You can buy the OLED display as a spare part for 100 EUR on the official website. https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/category/spare-parts-4?category=4&filters=31
Yeah, that plus labor is 80% of what I typically pay for a whole brand new phone… I know why it is this way, but it really is this way and that makes it very hard for low volume players to enter the market.
Smartphones of this price would be low quality, impossible to self epair, and very likely made with very poor social and environmental conditions. It’s the opposite of what Fairphone does, so the comparison is not possible.
I’ve owned the 4, for a couple of years. Was really excited to get one.
Parts have been unavailable for a long time when I needed them. The battery is pretty dead after 2 years meanwhile my pixel which is about 5 years old still going strong. The os is the buggiest experience I’ve ever had, sluggish, going from portrait the landscape kills UI formatting if it switches to power save it’ll skip a video. Boot loops constantly.
Never again I’m afraid it’s neat I could fix things with it so quickly but they fail hard past that.
Example navigation buttons have just covered the voyager ui
Navigation buttons covering the Voyager UI is an Android/Voyager bug. It has happened on my last two phones.
It works fine on all my test devices.
I just got it to happen by flipping my phone back and forth
Weird! Rotating is working fine for me.
It doesn’t happen all the time. I’m currently on an Android 14 device and it seems to happen sometimes when the screen rotates to vertical. Sometimes toggling the orientation by rotating my phone sideways and back fixes it, sometimes not. It’s very inconsistent.
Wow. I got the 4 at launch and honestly never had any problems except calls get fucked up more frequently recently. Didn’t know they stopped selling parts, what’s the point?
They didn’t stop selling parts they were just unavailable which when you need them as you say defeats the point.
That’s a distinction without a difference. If things are consistently out of stock, they’re not actually selling them.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I believe the F6 is likely expected by autumn and was considering this as my next. I often wondered about parts as time goes by, as I suspected the company wouldn’t want a huge inventory of spares and the costs involved. If I do get one, I’ll likely buy a spare screen at the least.
The UI stuff is disappointing, however maybe not a deal breaker as I’m trying to reduce my usage. Perhaps a buggy smartphone could be a decent dumbphone alternative.
Just switch ROM?
Def something I need to do
I really want this to come to the US as well…
Is this phone also more secure?
The problem we are running into right now is Apple and Google are colluding with the US government over fascism and they are supporting their Nazi regime
They have all the power and they can change all of these services overnight, they can track you and everything and you will have no idea and no way to get rid of it
We really need an open replacement. Phones are now used for everything
Is this phone also more secure?
Probably not.
Apple & Google have spent considerable amounts of time building out hardware security infrastructure for their products that I find it extremely unlikely Fairphone would have been able to match.
For example, the popular alternative Android OS GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixels, because: (Emphasis added by me)
“There are currently no other devices meeting even the most basic security requirements while running an alternate OS. GrapheneOS is very interested in supporting a non-Pixel brand, but the vast majority of Android OEMs do not take security seriously. Samsung takes security almost as seriously as Google, but they deliberately cripple their devices when unlock them to install another OS and don’t allow an alternate OS to use important security features. If Samsung permitted GrapheneOS to support their devices properly, many of their phones would be the closest to meeting our requirements. They’re currently missing the very important hardware memory tagging feature, but only because it’s such a new feature”
If even Samsung, the only other phone brand on the market they consider close to meeting their standards, doesn’t support every modern hardware security feature, and deliberately cripples their security for alternate OS’s, as a multi billion dollar company, I doubt Fairphone has custom-built hardware security mechanisms for their phones to the degree that Google has.
Well yeah, because why would phone companies care? Consumers buy devices based on camera and display quality, not for security, privacy, etc. I just had a chat w/ a coworker about a Chinese device with an incredible camera and big battery, and I highly doubt it does anything but the bare minimum for security. It’s a cool piece of hardware, but a no-go for anyone that cares even a little about security updates.
I have a Pixel device because it has a long SW support cycle (Google promises at least 7 years), and I use GrapheneOS because it removes Google’s spyware crap. I’m not married to GrapheneOS or Pixel devices, I just need something where the software support will last at least longer than my desire to keep the device (about 4-5 years for me). I’ve ditched each of my last phones largely because they ran out of security update support, and that sucks.
I’d prefer a Linux phone w/ decent security features, but they don’t meet my minimum standards for things working (just need phone features to work properly, don’t need apps). The moment a Linux phone comes out than actually works properly and has reasonable security, I’ll switch. The FairPhone could be that, but it’s not, so I don’t have one.
how is pixel with graphene os ? does it completely remove all google spyware shit? or do they have some sort of hardware backdoor?
the reason I ask is because i have a motorola right now and it pisses me off immensely … there is this notification they keep pushing, “Activate Live Lock screen” which i don’t even know what it is, some background pictures crap. I uninstalled this app, but the notification remains. Like it’s not there always but keeps coming back every few days. this has been going on for months and i got so pissed i decided to contact support and complain there. they said, something along the lines of, we can connect remotely and do it for you. ( like disable, but they can’t disable because i went through every option on the phone, it cannot be disabled, it’s just bloatware) but their “we can do it for you remotely” got me thinking, backdoors, backdoors everywhere.
now i want a new phone lol and one that can support a custom firmware but installing custom firmwares on pretty much all phones is a nightmare.
but i also hate buying anything google, hence my question.
how is pixel with graphene os ?
Good?
By default, there’s no Google Play Services or any Google apps whatsoever. What you do have is a handful of utilities and a minimal app store that gives you the option to install Google Play Services and a few other apps. Or you can use the browser (Vanadium, a Chromium fork w/ some security options enabled) to download an alternative app store (F-Droid, Aurora, etc). They recently added Accrescent to the built-in app store as well, and I see 12 apps in that app store. I think by default there are 6 apps installed? (Messaging, PDF Viewer, Vanadium, Info, Auditor, and the App Store). I can’t remember which I had to install manually since I set it up a few months ago.
So yes, I think they thoroughly remove Google’s stuff from the default install.
Most Android apps seem to work (i.e. installed through Aurora), though a few have issues without Google Play Services running or one of the security features. I use a separate profile for the apps I need that don’t work w/o Google Play services, and I switch profiles as needed. That way I don’t have Google Play Services running at all unless I actually need it.
alright thanks for the extensive answer, this sounds great. i like the two profiles setup. and i didn’t even know about aurora store ( i am out of the loop i know :) ) looks like this could be my next phone, and previous gen looks great enough, i don’t need the latest bells and whistles, pixel 8 would be great.
Cool!
I’m happy to answer any other questions.
BTW, Aurora is just an alternative frontend to the Play Store, it has the same apps, but you can use an anonymous profile instead of logging in with a Google account.
Understand your worries. I can say that GOS is the gold standard of privacy phones , nothing beats it. Calyx comes in 2nd. A new install of graphene has a browser, pdf viewer sms app and that’s about it. Use as you wish , with secured bootloader and zero google stuff. And I think it’s the easiest install of any , anyone can do it. And 2nd hand phones are available
thanks, this sounds great. i’ve installed a few custom firmwares but like a decade ago and i wanted to install one on my motorola recently and was just perplexed at the complexity of it all, i might be getting old. i mean i can follow instructions, but just so many things can go wrong, don’t do this, softbrick, don’t do that, hardbrick … honestly, the instructions were well written but unorganized a bit, just put me off.
i think i might like GOS tho, sounds great and 2nd hand pixel 8 or so are cheap enough so i’ll probably give it a go.
Yea a lot have changed in 10 years in the cat and mouse game. GOS is a completely different thing. Want to unlock or unlock bootloader on a Motorola = 2 pages instructions in different xda threads. On a pixel? fastboot oem unlock done. And that’s just because I’m old school , GOS have a webinstaller were I think you don’t even need to touch the terminal.
Agree. Calyx is also an option when GOS support ends , then lineage etc. Wish we had good working Linux phones but I have high hopes my pixel 7 will be my last android
I used a Fairphone 4 with /e/ and it was good. Not great, but useable. I expect the hardware bugs I ran into (using the camera only worked like 20 times before the phone needed a restart, Bluetooth randomly not working) to be ironed out by now. Currently on an old Samsung and it is more solid, but I also liked the environmentalism with the fairphone. Anyone with a Fairphone 5 and something like a glucose sensor thats in constant use?
Please get through the FCC and open sales in the USA before Fairphone 6 is made.
I really don’t want to buy another unrepairable phone.
Only 400€ to go until I can afford it.
I’m waiting on a Framework Phone.
Do you really think they’ll make one?
Yes eventually they will. Might be still 5 years away tho
I hope so, and I hope they make it compatible with regular Linux, like postmarketOS or Mobian. Make sure all the core phone features work properly (calls, SMS/MMS, data, audio, sensors, etc), then let the Linux community go nuts on it.
I’d pay a premium for that, and I’d probably pick up a Framework laptop as well. I currently use an old Thinkpad (circa 2018), and I’m trying to make that last until Framework has an option for a 13-14" laptop with insane battery life (ARM or RISC-V is probably fine), or at least has a keyboard that has a Trackpoint and physical mouse buttons like my Thinkpad. But if they make a phone, I might just lower my standards a bit to keep everything in the family.
I have the fairphone 4 and have had no issues. As long as a fairphone exists I don’t see any reason I should switch.
Have you had to replace any parts yet?
I had to replace parts on my FP5. It fell on very bad asphalt at speed whilst cycling in a foreign country. The glass on the camera modules scattered. Display protector broke and the case got some good damage. I was instantly calmed realising it is a FairPhone and knowing I could order replacement parts.
Repairs were trivial and it feels good to have created just a tiny amount of e-waste instead of a large amount. The black aluminium case has some war wounds (scratches) reminding me of the trip.
Knowing it’s so easy to repair, do you think it’s worth bothering with a case and/or screen protector?
I don’t bother with a case for this reason, haven’t broken anything so far. Just replaced the battery a couple times.
Depends on the use.
The screen protector serves as a blue light filter too, it’s cheaper than a display, and fairly thin. That’s a straightforward addition for my use but if you don’t have issues with your phone dropping then you could certainly do without.
I very much dislike cases and loved the PH-1 for stating that a phone should be solid enough without a case (sadly it did not survive a 50cm drop on a floor so it did not hold up in practice). If you don’t have much issues with your phone dropping then not having a case makes it so much nicer.
I take more risk holding my phone than I should which means it falls more than average. The price I have to pay is a screen protector and cover. Replacing the display should be easy, but it’d also be wasteful.
If you hate cases so much, sure. But why create e waste and waste your money when you can avoid that by using a case?
FWIW, I have the FP3 for now more than 4 years. I have only replaced the battery 6 months ago. A case would have been extra waste (to produce the case itself) in my case, and probably will be trashed after as it might not fit the next phone.
If you can keep it safe then cool. I cannot take that risk as my current screen protector is already cracked a little within a year lol.
I’ve had this phone for over a year with Murena e/OS/! 90hz refresh rate is so nice
