• TheFonz@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    A couple points.

    One: No armed militia is going to stop the US 7bn dollar military apparatus on home territory. Don’t bring up Vietnam. Don’t bring up Afghanistan. If you think gravy seals navy is anything compared to the Viet Cong you are deluded.

    Two: using the France terrorist road vehicle attack as a counter is disingenuous use of stats/numbers. You can’t compare a singular attack to the average gun based attacks in the US. What you would do -if you really cared to compare them- is take the average per capita road rage incident or vehicle based murders and compare them to the gun related mass shootings / deaths. You can control for many factors too (time frames, region, age, etc). Something about guns being readily available makes them more likely to be used. We have millions of people driving and only so many intentional terrorist attacks using vehicles.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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      1 year ago

      One: No armed militia is going to stop the US 7bn dollar military apparatus on home territory.

      It’s a tired argument I’m not interested in taking up again, but the answer is yes, they can. The military didn’t drop bombs on Waco.

      You can’t compare a singular attack to the average gun based attacks in the US.

      I didn’t. I compared it to every mass shooting in the history of the country. The moral of the story (since you missed it) is that you can ban guns and it won’t stop people from just using something else when they want to hurt large groups of random people.

      Something about guns being readily available makes them more likely to be used.

      Which is precisely why “gun deaths” and “gun violence” is a terrible metric. Even if you could theoretically take them all away, they’d just use something else (like a rental truck). Notice a theme here?

      • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yes. The theme is your inability to understand stats. If cars, which are more readily available than guns are able to cause more damage every shooter would go for that but reality is guns are easier. Sure, if they’re determined they will find a way, but people tend to go for the easiest path. Deterrents tend to slow the process as studies have shown. That’s why looking at stats is so useful for understanding circumstances and deterrents. That’s if you really wanted to have an unbiased honest conversation.

        Waco is not serving your argument. Firstly, the military was not involved. Second, we’re talking 4 ATF agents lost compared to 76 adults. Soooo…I don’t see the relevance. The Xbox gravy seals is not going to live up to it’s expectations. Shit, is proud boys the best example of the 2a crowd because they look like they can’t run a mile either (that’s must my opinion though, maybe the photos are deceiving).

        • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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          1 year ago

          The theme is your inability to understand stats.

          …what stats? You mean stats of the most successful mass murders? I think that belongs to trucks and planes.

          If cars, which are more readily available than guns are able to cause more damage every shooter would go for that but reality is guns are easier.

          Guns are just what they see on TV. Lots of people use cars, bombs or whatever else. In the case of France they didn’t have guns, but it obviously didn’t stop them.

          Waco is not serving your argument. Firstly, the military was not involved.

          Uuuuhhh but that WAS my argument…

          Second, we’re talking 4 ATF agents lost compared to 76 adults

          It doesn’t matter. No one is keeping score. The point is they stood up for themselves and gave the ATF a fuckin’ helluva time. Wanna take a poll on how many armed citizens there are vs. ATF agents? Or even the entirety of the US military?

          • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yea the military was never involved. So it has nothing to do with my initial point. Buck and Chuck are not taking down the US army. I don’t know why we got sidetracked with it.

            • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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              1 year ago

              You’re the one who brought it up?

              The point is the military won’t be dropping bombs on its own people.

              • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                The phone is ringing, it’s for you. Sounds like some miners in West Virginia from 1921 would like to talk to you.

              • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                You’re so confident. Why? Even after I showed you ATF agents alone can suppress an insurrection before we even bring in armed guards.

                • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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                  1 year ago

                  You’re so confident. Why?

                  Why wouldn’t I be?

                  Even after I showed you ATF agents alone can suppress an insurrection

                  LOL you’re talking about a handful of looney cultists. I’m talking about a revolution.

                  You’re still so confident despite having 0 counter-arguments

              • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                WACO negotiations took 53 days, but MOVE was given a day to leave before two bombs were dropped in the middle of rowhouses in Philadelphia 😂 arming yourself to discourage the government works way better when the government is already favorable to your cause.