• jet@hackertalks.com
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      5 months ago

      Part of the problem is the smaller instances don’t even see those communities when you post, I was unaware of 75% of the communities you just listed. I have a micro instance, and if I don’t subscribe I don’t see it.

      It’s probably not much of an issue, given that most people are on a couple mega instances…

      • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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        5 months ago

        Hey, nice to see you here!

        I know community discoverability can be an issue. When I launched !imaginary@reddthat.com and !dragonball@ani.social, I used my alts on the top 10 instances to subscribe to them so that they would show in the All feed of those instances.

        For small instances, I tried to post too to !newcommunities@lemmy.world and !communitypromo@lemmy.ca, but beyond that there isn’t really much I can do.

        There was a tool that could help address that (I don’t have the name right now), but last time I tried it, it wasn’t working, so I’m not sure it’s that useful.

        • jet@hackertalks.com
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          5 months ago

          Good to be seen! Smart of you to preseed The larger instances good strategy

          I think the clients are going to have to solve this, maybe look at the all feed on multiple servers, and then only show you what’s different compared to your own server.

          Discoverability is the key weakness of Lemmy, just like mastodon

          • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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            5 months ago

            Not sure clients might be the solution here, I think at the end people will have to choose

            • go to a large instance and rely on other people to populate the All feed for you
            • go to a small instance but know that you’ll have to subscribe to most of the communities yourself
            • can@sh.itjust.works
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              5 months ago

              Are you familiar with Lemmy Federate? Participating instances get a bot that follows submitted communities to get them in feeds and then unsubscribes once a real user from the instance subs.

              • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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                5 months ago

                Ah, that’s the cool I was looking for! Are we sure this tool is completely functional? The large number of “in progress” instances always gives me doubt

                • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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                  5 months ago

                  It used to be Lemmy Community Boost and I think it still works despite the status. I do keep meaning to track the developer down and give them a nudge.

                  • can@sh.itjust.works
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                    5 months ago

                    I do see now that many instances have auto-add turned off, that could be what were seeing.

                  • iso@lemy.lol
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                    5 months ago

                    The tool relies on community local subscriber count to unsubscribe and that value was not available from 0.19.0 to 0.19.3. I fixed the problem about 8 months ago but due to unfortunate timing, it didn’t reach prod from then.

                    In the end, the tool is working. The only problem is, it doesn’t know if it should unsubscribe on 0.19.0 to 0.19.3. So it stays in in progress state but still federates the community.

                    Once all instances upgrades to 0.19.4, it will work correctly both functionally and visually.

                    @Emperor@feddit.uk @Blaze@reddthat.com

                    Also @can@sh.itjust.works; the auto add feature is for adding new local communities to the tool automatically. With it, users don’t need to add their communities manually to the tool because it will do it automatically.

                    But the federation is not relies on that tick. If the instance is enabled, it will subscribe to all communities no matter if auto add is enabled or not.

                    I guess I need to improve the explanations cuz at this state it is so confusing :) Maybe a FAQ page could be useful.

            • jet@hackertalks.com
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              5 months ago

              The second scenario is viable, if Lemmy was a lot more vibrant, and had enough population that the niche communities could keep you busy. Right now I wake up and check Lemmy and I’ve gotten through all the new posts in 20 minutes. So it’s getting kind of quiet

              • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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                5 months ago

                It is indeed quiet.

                I wanted to try something and blocked all news/memes/tech/politics communities last week, my All feed is definitely much more quieter.

                Which I don’t mind, but there is definitely stuff to do to get it the communities “beyond memes-tech-news” active

        • jet@hackertalks.com
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          5 months ago

          That’s a really good feature! I hope it gets implemented

          For Voyager, I already suggested that they highlight communities for subscribe to when they are displayed, and that would make it easier to subscribe to new communities, so you don’t have to check to see if you’ve already subscribed

    • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al
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      5 months ago

      @rgullis@communick.news can you create !football@soccer.forum so we can try and transition that community over to there blaze is doing amazing work in terms of making it feel active, but I’m all about decentralization. I also think @kameecoding@lemmy.world and @baatliwala@lemmy.world would both be great as part of the moderation team.

      • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I do own lemmy.futbol if someone would want to co create an instance, but frankly I do not have a lot of free time so I could only help out in a supporting capacity

      • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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        5 months ago

        To be honest as mentioned elsewhere I’m not the most convinced about having all of the theme instances managed by rglullis.

        Raphael, don’t get me wrong, you are doing a very good job, and I really hope you’ll succeed with your new NLNet grant, but having all of those instances depending on you, even if you seem to have a backup person, seems risky.

        @sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al, also the Euro 2024 is starting later this week, I think it’s just too late to migrate now if we want a decent level of activity during the event. We can always revisit later, but I wouldn’t move now.

        • rglullis@communick.news
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          5 months ago

          It feels a bit of a Catch-22, doesn’t it?

          The first topic-based I started was selfhosted. Not by choice, but because the mods of /r/selfhosted refused to run their own instance and instead went to LW. The others have similar stories. There are also instances that I went as far as setting up the domain name and creating the first communities (roll20), but shutting them down after I noticed that there was already some other instance (ttrpg) filling a similar need.

          I’ll gladly get the instances out of my back, if they grow to the point that enough people are using it and willing to moderate it. But they are never going to grow if key members in the network keep rejecting it on the grounds of “I don’t trust it”, will it?

          Aside from the differences that Communick is a commercial venture while the “larger” instances are “begware”, I honestly don’t know what is that I am asking that makes people reject it so vehemently.

          • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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            5 months ago

            I agree with most of what you are saying.

            I guess in this case programming.dev is a solid choice enough for a !linux community, in the same vein as ttrpg.network was for DnD and RPG.

            @sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al what do you think?

            I’ll gladly get the instances out of my back, if they grow to the point that enough people are using it and willing to moderate it. But they are never going to grow if key members in the network keep rejecting it on the grounds of “I don’t trust it”, will it?

            On a completely different level, I would gladly give a few communities back to other people. I guess there are only so many people having time and energy to keep the whole thing alive, and we are all stretched a bit too thin.

            Instance management is a much more important commitment than moderation, though.

            • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al
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              5 months ago

              The Linux thing is already done. I was just saying I would’ve preferred a less “Linux is only for programmers” style home. But for Dungeons and Dragons, Table Top Role Playing Game Network is the epitome of perfection in a home.

            • rglullis@communick.news
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              5 months ago

              Instance management is a much more important commitment than moderation, though.

              Do you want any more commitment than a business running 10+ instances for almost a year now? Paying $1000+ per year on the domains alone?

              Forgive my bluntness, but it seems that the fact that Communick is (or tries to be) a for-profit venture bothers you?

              • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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                5 months ago

                Do you want any more commitment than a business running 10+ instances for almost a year now? Paying $1000+ per year on the domains alone?

                That’s what I mean. You have higher costs as you manage 10+ instances. Could those costs lead you to stop the project at some point? I know you don’t like begware, but that’s another model that can also work (most of the instances have celebrated their first birthday recently)

                Forgive my bluntness, but it seems that the fact that Communick is (or tries to be) a for-profit venture bothers you?

                No worries. Actually it’s not really the business model that concerns me (I’m neutral), but the centralization of instances managed by one entity.

                If anything happened to the most popular 10 instances, Lemmy would probably die overnight.

                Having one instance down, even for weeks (LW last year) still allowed other instances to operate

                • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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                  5 months ago

                  I know you don’t like begware, but that’s another model that can also work (most of the instances have celebrated their first birthday recently)

                  “Begware” seems so negative - I like to recall the maxim: “If you are not paying for the product, then you are the product.” The rise the Big Tech social media firms was propelled by convenience and there being no obvious upfront costs. Enshittification has shown us what the actual costs are.

                  The Fediverse shows a better way to do it but, if you aren’t selling your users data, then someone has to pay. If one person is footing the bill, then that is a single point of failure. Luckily, costs are quite low, so it doesn’t need a lot of people to chip in to cover the costs - I will.admit to being concerned when we launched the feddit.uk fundraiser, as I wasn’t sure how much we’d raise but, within a couple of days we’d got almost enough to cover the year’s costs with a good steady stream of donations. It means the instance’s financial future is secure.

                • rglullis@communick.news
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                  5 months ago

                  You have higher costs as you manage 10+ instances.

                  The costs of running the instances is sunk already, because I run them on the same infra that I use for my projects, and it’s not a couple of hundred dollars per month that is going to make or break things for me. The worst case scenario is “I go back to a full-time job and Communick becomes yet-again a side-project/hobby”. The case where any of these instances become big enough to the point that it demands more from me is better than any of the current situation.

                  (begware is) another model that can also work (most of the instances have celebrated their first birthday recently).

                  I honestly don’t see it this way. Activity through the network has been abysmal. Operating an instance at this level should be incredibly easy, but even then we have things like bigger instances having issues with lack of moderators, basic federation issues between the larger instances mostly because of network latency… all that show that we should be collectively putting a lot more resources into this if we truly want to have a credible alternative to Reddit and Facebook Groups.

                  If anything happened to the most popular 10 instances, Lemmy would probably die overnight.

                  I don’t want to sound too pessimistic, but Lemmy feels pretty much dead already. My feed is mostly content from the communities that I’ve been posting + the two of three stubborn users (like yo)u who have been trying as hard as possible to make something out of it.

            • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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              5 months ago

              Instance management is a much more important commitment than moderation, though.

              It’s important but it isn’t a huge amount of work, especially if you have a good team to spread the load.

              • rglullis@communick.news
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                5 months ago

                It also helps that I am running a managed instance hosting business, and I should be more comfortable doing this than the average hobbyist?

                • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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                  5 months ago

                  Yes, I’d imagine there are efficiencies to doing that - we inherited a thriving medium-sized instance so, despite one of the team having spun up their own Lemmy instance, there was a lot of “learning on the job” required to get everything humming along nicely. I imagine that, with more experience it becomes easier.

                • Blaze@reddthat.comOP
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                  5 months ago

                  On the other hand, having a lot of instances managed by you increase the impact in case something happens