• A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    22 hours ago

    welp I signed up for the waitlist.

    I’ll use it for a disposable email at first, and if it endures and does well I’ll move my main shit off to it.

  • Tea@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    Out of all the articles and the official release announcement, you could share, you shared forbes which violate people privacy.

    Why?

  • Geetnerd@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    23 hours ago

    I’m listening…

    But how is a small non-profit going to afford a free email service? Ads in every email?

    • Rachel@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      19 hours ago

      Based on what I’ve seen in their forums it will be a paid service. I think it will be free at first for beta testers but I assume they are targeting people who currently use services like Proton.

  • commander@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    22 hours ago

    I’d consider it. If they host things outside of the US/start moving operations overseas, it’d be a lot more interesting. I sub to Proton for email, VPN, and drive support. Still hoping someday for proper Linux drive support so Mozilla/Thunderbird can target that

  • Reygle@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    61
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 day ago

    I think it’s incredibly important that people know, with absolute certainty, whether or not the new Mozilla/Firefox privacy policy in any way applies to / covers such a service.

    I’m not saying I know the answer- What I’m saying without a concrete, permanently applied answer it’s not even considerable.

    • Rachel@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 day ago

      There is no email service that exists without a terms of use and privacy policy. I still feel everyone overreacted about Firefox. It’s funnier how many people said they switched to Brave because of it and all the super shady stuff Brave has done.

      • britaliope@kourjetez.bzh
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        1 day ago

        at exists without a terms of use and privacy policy. I still feel everyone overreacted about Firefox. It’s funnier how many people said they switched to Brave because of it and all the super shady stuff Brave has done.

        Being angry at the Mozilla foundation for those changes is understandable. Switching to Brave because of it is plain stupid.

        • Sequence5666@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          I do think the brave devs or teams starting spreading the “switch to brave” as a growth hack. No right minded person would pick brave over ff. Maybe librewolf sure.

      • Reygle@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        1 day ago

        Firefox/Mozilla operated without any of the new additions for nearly the entire history of the internet until this year. If anything, “over”-reacting to the new policies was too weak a reaction. You do you and all, but I’ll agree to very strongly disagree.

    • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      You can’t know that with absolute certainty. Sorry, but if you’re using someone elses server for your communications and they’re not end to end encrypted, you should just assume that they can and do read your emails, and act accordingly.

    • SaltSong@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 day ago

      What is it that you’re concerned about? Assume that I have no idea what either the new or old Mozilla privacy policy is, please. I tend to assume that all such are a pack of lies and everything is spying on me.

  • Ray1992xD@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    174
    ·
    2 days ago

    No matter how much I hate Mozilla’s new path, companies like this challenging big tech are bold and have a lot of courage. If I set aside my personal op opinions about Mozilla, I actually admire them for this. They can actually dent big tech with funding from big tech itself.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      1 day ago

      For now, they’re better than Google. I have some bad opinions about them, but anything better than Google competing with Google is an improvement.

    • danc4498@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      57
      ·
      2 days ago

      I keep hearing a lot of negative comments about Mozilla lately. I’m wondering if this move is more in line with then just turning into another google rather than disrupting the marketplace.

    • 0x0@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      48
      ·
      2 days ago

      It’s a saturated market and email is starting to disappear (it’ll take years, but the signs are there).
      They’d be better using it on the browser and ditching other products.

      • scratchee@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        64
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        Email isn’t going anywhere. It’s the ipv4 of communication. You can list 100 things bad about it and none of it matters, too many things are now built on top of it, no competitor can possibly have a chance without first reimplementing email, and then they’re just adding extensions which everyone else ignores, and email continues.

        The more plausible threat to email is that it gets siloed into the top 5 or 6 providers and everyone else gets filtered out as spam (ie you need gmail, hotmail, etc or your emails will never reach anyone)

        • Scrollone@feddit.it
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          2 days ago

          The big providers problem is already true, but DMARC and DKIM mitigated that problem.

      • 1984@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        43
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 days ago

        No its never going to disappear. If you are referring to people using slack and chat apps, those are locked in walled gardens where your messages cant ever leave.

        Email can be moved anywhere easily.

        • chaosCruiser@futurology.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          2 days ago

          On top of that, people still use email to sign up for these gardens. Technically, you could use your phone number too. I wonder how far could you take this idea of living completely without email.

          Job applications, and several other sign ins still depend on email, so that’s going to be a bit of a hitch.

          • fishpen0@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            1 day ago

            Yeah and then we can really go hard destroying the lives of people without phone access.

            I work for a healthcare company that serves the under privileged and right now in most cities it’s easier to guarantee someone has email than a consistent phone number thanks to free WiFi hotspots. You can miss a phone payment and still read your email even if you’re cut off from cellular service.

        • 0x0@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          13
          ·
          2 days ago

          It’s insecure by default and Kids These Days™ prefer messaging apps, which have boomed in the last decade.
          Time will tell.

          • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            29
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 days ago

            So… Exactly how it was 20 years ago. Kids Those Days used AIM and Yahoo Messenger instead of slack and discord.

          • JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            2 days ago

            What do you make of the use of email in the business world? You’re right that quite a bit of that has turned into instant messaging as well, ie I text my boss instead of sending them mail but it definitely feels like that’s going away a lot slower if not expanding

            • PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              11
              ·
              2 days ago

              Email is a must for between businesses. Having said that, lots of internal communication is findingther channels, like Teams, Slack, and so on.

              • fishpen0@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 day ago

                We actually heavily rely on connected channels to talk to most of our vendors now. Once you are on enterprise level support pretty much every vendor gives you a dedicated slack or teams channel.

                It’s great since people come and go and we don’t lose our vendor comms history in random inboxes or have someone not CCd on. Any vendor we have linked is also one less vendor someone is likely to be phished talking to the wrong person on the wrong email. For support tickets there’s no wrapping and encrypting shit steps to send critical info over email, we use the slack channel. It really solves a lot of BS

      • Kualdir@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        ·
        2 days ago

        Any business2business or consumer2business communication will likely still happen over email for a very long time

  • Leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 day ago

    Thunderbird Pro will apparently be:

    This email thing plus Thunderbird Send (which is basically https://send.vis.ee/), Thunderbird Appointment - a scheduling tool and Thunderbird Assist, which is:

    “…at least for now, being cautiously labeled as “an experiment” that will allow users to take advantage of AI features within their email. However, the goal is to be lightweight enough that the language models can be run locally on a user’s PC in the interest of privacy. This service is being developed in partnership with Flower AI, which leverages Nvidia’s confidential compute to provide private remote processing in the event a user’s PC isn’t powerful enough. Sipes emphasizes that any remote processing features attached to Thunderbird Assist will always be optional, in the interest of ensuring complete user privacy.”

    So AI shit that nobody asked for or wants.

    • SaltSong@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 day ago

      This covers my thoughts about damn near every “helpful” feature this side of auto-complete email addresses.

      • mke@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        They said it will be opt-in and are trying to make it local-first. Their provider(?) apparently allows fallback to nvidia cloud compute when the hardware can’t handle it.

        I’m not using AI to write my fucking emails, regardless. Just wanted to let people know.

        p.s. Sorry, I’m dumb, skipped over quote in parent comment. Point is, there’s more to the service than optional AI bullshit, and you shouldn’t have to disable it.

    • freely1333@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      22 hours ago

      This sounds like proton except I haven’t heard a thing about cost or encryption which leads me to believe you will pay with your data and there will be no encryption.

      Proton is the bare minimum for email services. Email should be fully redone at its core.

  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    21 hours ago

    Sounded great until the “assist” ai feature. I friggin hate Gemini in gmail so any other kind of ai is an automatic nogo for me

  • conorab@lemmy.conorab.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    78
    ·
    2 days ago

    If this works out it might be a nice place to migrate to away from my self-hosted e-mail provided they eventually let you bring your own domain. Just sucks that e-mail is essentially the most secure thing you need to have since compromising that can compromise every account attached to the e-mail. That’s a lot of trust you need to instill in your e-mail host.

    • mke@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 day ago

      Yes, sort of. Thundermail addresses, apparently, or bring your own. From the linked article you’re commenting on:

      Users can send and receive email using new Thundermail accounts they sign up for. The service will also allow using your own custom domain (e.g. your.name@yourdomain.com).

      • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 day ago

        You have always been able to use your own domain email with Thunderbird. The big news here is the fact that they are launching not only a web based mail service a la Thunderbird but also providing an email server for addresses of [yourchosenname]@thundermail.com. which is gonna be pretty great.

        • lud@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 day ago

          I assume they mean that you can use your own domain with their email server.

          I.e point your MX records to them.

          Of course you always could use your own domain in their email client. It would be a pretty shitty email client otherwise.

        • Geetnerd@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          23 hours ago

          Yeah, but the Thunderbird client… ain’t great.

          And yes, I’m a Linux nerd since 2003. Thunderbird’s client sucks.

          That said, I hope this is successful.

          • imvii@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            22 hours ago

            I’ve been using Thunderbird for email for years. I use it with some SMTP servers on shared hosting platforms, a yahoo account and a few gmail accounts - one with calendars. I don’t have any problems with it. Runs stable, doesn’t crash or do weird things. My only complaint would be search is a little clunky, but it works.

            I had to use Outlook client for year at another job and that client was hot garbage.

          • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            23 hours ago

            Whats wrong with the thunderbird client.

            Even when I was on windows back on XP I used it. Never had a problem with it or its functionality, personally.

            • Geetnerd@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              22 hours ago

              Nerds like us can figure it out.

              But it’s hardly user friendly. I’m not going to get into the minutiae, but Joe Blow could probably get it to fetch, and send, but the user interface options like font size, etc., blows. Typical nerd “It’s good enough for me, RTFM, losers.”

              And I’m too old to fuck with things for fun. I want it to just work, and I’m not paying Apple prices for that, or supporting Microsoft’s eventual SaaS subscription model, which WILL eventually happen.

            • Patch@feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              19 hours ago

              Depends what you’re after. I’m a Thunderbird user, but if user friendliness is the aim then Geary is quite good.

            • Geetnerd@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              23 hours ago

              For Linux, I can’t think of another user side client. I use web based.

              So, I’m happy to see Mozilla get into that arena.

  • arch@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    27
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 days ago

    I was thinking ab this being april fool bcz it’s posted on 1st…

  • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 days ago

    Here’s what I want… I leave a computer on at home and it checks my email. I get emails from it at my phone. No setup. Make it work like Sinkthing used to work. I don’t want cloud anything. Fucking backup nightmare where my shit ends up kidnapped by a company for monthly ransom.

  • magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    I hope to god one day the developers at Mozilla finally get tired of this shit and fork everything under a new org.

    Fuck off with more services and give me my integrated FTP client back. No one who uses Mozilla software wants more cloud shit or online services from Mozilla.

    • mke@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      No one who uses Mozilla software wants more cloud shit or online services from Mozilla.

      I don’t think that’s unanimous. I’d like to use Firefox Relay, myself, and I’m willing to give thundermail a chance.

      Used to think I’d go full Proton eventually, but leaning more towards a diverse set of service providers, nowadays. It’s also my hope that these services allow Mozilla to depend less on companies like Google, and more on the users they ought to serve, which would be healthier for the org and better for users.

  • KingDingbat@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    2 days ago

    I have a 20ish year old history in my Gmail account organized in labels and all that. I wonder if it will be viable to migrate?

    • TheEntity@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      26
      ·
      2 days ago

      Considering labels are very non-standard, which caused trouble over IMAP since forever, I wouldn’t count on that part.

      • Scrollone@feddit.it
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        2 days ago

        Labels are displayed as folders on IMAP, which means that a single message could appear in multiple folders. Are there any other problems you’re talking about?

        • TheEntity@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 days ago

          One of the problems that annoyed me in the past is the complexity and ambiguity of deleting an email over IMAP. Depending on whether it’s the last label of the deleted email, deleting an email from a label’s directory either removes a label from this email, or actually deletes the email.

    • dustyData@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 days ago

      Please archive shit. It’s OK to save old data, but not on the service. There are ways. Even banks, the most obsessive and legally strapped data hoarders keep their 5+ year old data in deep cold storage, away from the active services. 99.9^% of information that old won’t be looked at by anyone.

      • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 day ago

        Not true.

        It’s much easier to keep old data in active storage where it can be classified, searched, and have retention/deletion policies applied. Moving it elsewhere makes it more likely you’ll just hang onto it forever while not using it at all.

        • dustyData@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          When was the last time you had to find a 20 year old email? Share your anecdotes.

          Edit: I’m not being snarky, there are legitimate and more functional solutions.

          • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 day ago

            I don’t disagree that you should set up retention policies to delete old email, I disagree that you should remove old emails from primary service/storage.

            I actually did need a 15 year old email a few months ago. I don’t recall what I needed, but I then set up a retention policy to delete old stuff.

          • Lemming6969@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 day ago

            Warranty… Some are 15-20 years, but you need proof of purchase docs, which are often emailed data.

            • dustyData@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              16 hours ago

              Why not having an archive of exclusively warranties? Emails can be downloaded, indexed and compressed. I agree on keeping archives of old stuff. But emails used as cloud drives are a huge problem for IT and security reasons. A legal folder is better and facilitates backup, encryption and much more accessibility.

              • Lemming6969@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 day ago

                So you don’t really want to archive in the technical sense, you want it offline for security, which is valid but extremely inconvenient for regular end users.