Magneto in the 90s. He even built an asteroid as a refuge for any mutant.
The older I get, more I agree with Magneto.
Magneto ftw. Xavier is a naive little bitch.
“You’re always sorry, Charles …and there’s always a speech!..but nobody cares.”
When the Sentinels start rounding up mutants, it is the biggest “I told you so” to Charles.
A Bioshock-like game set on Asteroid M would be, if you will excuse the parlance, baller.
You could say it would be out of this world.
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban comes to mind.
Satan of the Bible, similar character to Prometheus https://www.enotes.com/topics/paradise-lost/questions/why-satan-considered-hero-paradise-lost-419454
Proponent of knowledge and education. Isn’t big on forced worship. Doesn’t murder you for not paying enough attention. Guess it’s all just a trick to capture your eternal soul.
Does Dr Doom count for this? He believes he’s seen humanity perish in every reality except the one where he becomes the absolute ruler.
Yeah and he gets unlimited power from the sabertooth looking god or whatever.
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I would say that Lex Luthor is more of a villain who sees himself as the good guy. He thinks he is humanity’s savior from what he perceives as an alien threat. Whether he is evil or not depends on the actions of Superman.
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“Presentation” gives me goosebumps every time. Such a great scene
Unfortunately the sequel absolutely lacks presentation. Its like they completely forgot what made the first movie good.
There’s a sequel? 😬
Sadly yes.
Just looked it up. None of the original VA cast (all recast). 2.1 stars on IMDB. That’s the lowest I’ve ever seen.
well he didn’t “tuned out to be the good guy”. He was a bad guy and later became good because of the girl.
I think the message of the film was more that he was always good (to some extent) and that his earlier actions were influenced by his upbringing (in contrast to Metro Man’s)
In the third season of the legend of korra, a group of people try to get rid of a monarchy (which is long established as especially unequal and oppressive) in favor of self government. They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power. I love the avatar universe and get how they needed to fight them, but the group wasn’t wrong
Even the first season had Amon, the guy that wanted equality between benders and non-benders. At one point we’re even shown that power was cut to a predominantly non-bender neighborhood, and when people went outside to protest to get their power turned back on, they were all rounded up and arrested. Afterwards, when Korra goes and tries to get the people that were arrested set free, she’s told
All equalist suspects are being detained indefinitely. They’ll be freed if and when the task force deems them no longer a threat.
Just in case it wasn’t clear enough by that point that non-benders were treated as second class citizens.
All of the LoK villains were basically correct, and had to be caricatures of their stated beliefs in order to be villains. Amon was one of the better ones IMO though. Zaheer is too unrealistic
I’ve been meaning to re-watch Korra, but I remember even the first time I watched it being a bit disappointed in the “enlightened centrism” where they are trying to paint every conflict as pacifists vs extremists.
I think it’s similar to looking at BioShock 1 and BioShock Infinite. There’s a lot of writers out there who just use politics and ideology as a setting for the conflict rather than actually being central to their message. It’s simply a solid formula to make a villain: take any sort of stance and push it to violent extremes. Comstock is a religious zealot, Andrew Ryan I don’t think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember. Ken Levine’s message in the two games is not about religion, but extremes.
There are benefits. It makes the villains more nuanced and relatable. It gives the protagonist room for doubt and allows for some of the “good” guys to take on antagonistic roles. But Korra also ends up supporting an oppressive regime, and Booker DeWitt gets shoehorned into fights against the people rebelling against his enemy because… Reasons?
Andrew Ryan I don’t think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember.
“No gods or kings, only men.”
I think what made that group such good villains is that you could definitely see their point of view. That said, they left behind a TON of collateral damage, and they didn’t seem to care that innocent people, including children, died in their wake everywhere they went. They were terrorists that happened to have a noble cause.
The formula for a good villain is “legitimate grievance, insane solution.”
Even in the first season, I was siding with the equalists :s
They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power.
Did autocorrect change “fallible”? Because otherwise it makes the opposite point.
Probably a brain fart, thanks s
If you’re talking about Kuvira you should read the comics that take place after the show. My feelings on Kuvira became much more mixed as I ended up sympathizing with her after finishing them.
He’s talking about Zaheer and the Red Lotus. They were extremely well intentioned, but set about their goals with violence.
was there a reasonable alternative?
Mate. I already got corrected, what’s the point of telling me the same thing twice? Unless you just want attention. Blocking you.
Its about Zaheer and his gang
God Emperor Of Dune. Leto II needs his bath time.
Pokemon Sword and Shield.
Rose is trying to move the country off of fossil fuels and onto sustainable green energy. Somehow Gamefreak manages to portray this as being a terrorist and extremist. How dare he try to move Galar away from coal?
I mean, he did recreate a cataclysmic event in the process, and the projected crisis was bound to happen in 1000 years… One can never be too prepared I guess.
What is that even trying to say? That there is such thing as going too far when fighting the energy crisis? lol
What is that even trying to say? That there is such thing as going too far when fighting the energy crisis? lol
Game Freak’s writing team is invested in oil and coal, lol
Game freak is invested in producing shovelware.
Jafar in Twisted. So so good.
Twisted is what made me love musicals. They’re not a big thing in my culture, our theatre is strictly non-musical, and the movie ones seemed weird to me. But after watching Twisted, they all clicked for me. Everyone should give it a watch!
The Good Place, season 2.
The bible
Who’s the ‘main villain’ in the Bible?
If you were asked that on family fued, the top answer would be satan for sure. Though I like the other persons answer of humanity too.
Uhh…Satan?
Humanity.
Voyager kinda fucks with my ability to set spoiler tags, so here is your Spoiler Warning.
The Cabin in the Woods (even tho the organisation is run by complete assholes, they also happen to postpone the end of the word)
Mass Effect series (the Geth are actually ok having peace with everyone. They just happen to be in a civil war with Reaper worshippers)
Witcher 2 (Letho turns out to be the good guy)
Wanted (the father turns out to be the good guy)
Battlestar Galactica 2004 series (yes, the Cylons enacted the nuclear holocaust on humanity, but there is a case to be made that the vast majority of them have been manipulated by a faction of ancient Cylons, which leads to a civil war later in the show)
Cylons being manipulated by other cylons doesn’t absolve them of guilt.
BSG did have a few instances of the reverse of OP’s question tho – where the “good guys” turned out to be bad" – trying to say this without spoilers; it’s a 20 year old show but ffs of you haven’t seen it, go see it now.
- the (temporary) new admiral
- several main characters during the part where they live on the dirty planet
- a very specific set of seven main characters (wink wink) … .and more,…
And there’s one specific example of the full 360 – a character that starts good, turns bad, but turns out they were actually good all along. I won’t give the name, but they were passing messages to the resistance.
That show was awesome.
One note tho, on the topic generally: flipping character alignments is a frequent pre-shark-jump thing, and is often bad writing. In BSG, tho, all of the “flips” are pre-planned, or at least 100% true to their character (eg the 360 example above).
BSG is one of the best shows I have ever watched and not a single twist came across as forced or unnatural.
If I think about that I started watching it years after it was made and only started because I was bored out of my mind at that time. I could have missed it so easily.
He doesn’t “turn bad”. He’s good all along, but he’s a target of a witch hunt, understandably gets jaded by it and gets absolved at the last moment. It’s the judging commission or however they called themselves who are the bad guys there. Gaeta is innocent all along, even if he is annoying at times.
You’re right, I’ll concede that – but only because BSG is an amazing show and very few characters can be reduced to “good” and “bad” – even the “antagonists” (in the traditional sense of those characters working against the stories’ progression) have pretty valid reasons for doing what they do.
Gaius (sp?) is one of the closest characters to “bad” – but not because of the bad things he does, but because of the bad things he is – ie, vain, selfish, etc – and the fact that he lets those negative characteristics drive his actions.
All the characters have flaws, but the “good” characters do their best to mitigate their flaws, and let their positive traits motivate them. For example, Adama often acts before he thinks, a trait that is awesome in combat, but can be less positive other times – and he (as best he can) seeks advice and counsel from the people he trusts (eg Saul Tigh) – he knows he can be impulsive and he knows his “instant judgement” decision making isn’t perfect.
Cavil (that’s his name I think) is close to “evil” but he does have reasons for his actions – preservation of his “species” (though really it’s just himself) – but he’s evil because of the fact that he doesn’t listen and acts with disloyalty and dishonor.
(There’s an amazing comeuppance for the titular character of the show Nathan Barley that epitomizes this idea: Barley doesn’t actually do anything wrong, but his motivations are repugnant, and his motivations are what’s revealed… Shit I should write a whole essay on that…)
Are there contemporary shows that are as good as BSG? I kind of gave up on TV after Firefly.
Every story of Tom and Jerry.
How was Jerry evil? Mice gotta skim
Jerry antagonized Tom into attacking him more often than not. He viewed it as a game rather than a life or death struggle. Tom OTOH would be kicked out on the street if he didn’t try to keep Jerry under control.
I bet its that Jerry has that toxoplasmosis making him unafraid of cats. In that light, nobody’s at fault. Its just nature shit happening to play out in the domestic sphere
Some Guinness was spilt on the barroom floor, when the pub was shut for the night. Out of his hole crept a wee brown mouse & stood in the pale moon light. He lapped up the frothy brew from the floor, then back on haunches he sat. And all night long you could hear him roar, "Bring on the goddamn cat!
- Irish poem
haunches
I feel like nobody uses the word haunches enough/anymore. Such an amusing oldtimey euphemism for
dat ass
Hella haunches
Haunches like conches
The French version of La Femme Nikita, although it’s more of a redemption arc than “villain turning out to be a good guy.” She starts out as a junkie petty crook who murders a cop in cold blood, spends most of the film assassinating people for the government, and in the end seems to have gotten her life together.
But she starts out as a very not-nice person.
