cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/15988326
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10, and all editions will remain in support with monthly security update releases through that date. Existing LTSC releases will continue to receive updates beyond that date based on their specific lifecycles.
Source: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro
You can recommend what you like. As soon as Windows 10 can’t play the latest games I’m off to Linux.
Eat my whole ass, Microsoft.
Come on over, the water is fine. I switched to Pop_OS a few months back for the gaming rig and Proton+Steam works almost flawlessly. Older titles sometimes have hiccups, but so far ive only been blocked on one title.
Yep it’s pretty easy and my computer runs so much faster than Windows on the same machine.
Windows running on a VM under linux runs faster than windows on bare metal …
Not for me, but that might have been a slight exaggeration.
You joke but it actually boots faster in a VM for me than on bare metal. And that’s with fastboot enabled. Would love to know why!
the best jokes have a kernel of truth.
The VM is optimised for the OS, the OS is usually a fresh install with just that 1 program you need to use instead of you’re entire life scattered across the desktop, it can be a snapshot of the system in an optimal state right after running an unfuck windows script that removes default system malware which doesn’t let it reinstall, it has less system resources to deal with for the simple fact it can’t use them all at the same time as the base OS.
Probably a BIOS that has a very well known hardware configuration. It doesn’t have to worry about weird legacy shit, it’s only ever going to be the VM hardware. (Plus whatever you pass through, but I imagine the BIOS doesn’t care, or if it does it’ll slow it back down).
I just switched from W10 to Pop_OS and have had lots of trouble. I’m trying to stick with it but from audio glitches to many games not running unless I find a random CLI arg that someone mentioned on Reddit, to my UI freezing, it’s not been an easy switch.
Any chance you have an nvidia card? Nvidia for a long time has been in a worse spot on Linux than AMD, which interestingly is the inverse of Windows. A lot of AMD users complain of driver issues on Windows and swap to Nvidia as a result, and the exact opposite happens on Linux.
Nvidia is getting much better on Linux though, and Wayland+explicit sync is coming down the pipeline. With NVK in a couple years it’s quite possible that nvidia/amd Linux experience will be very similar.
I wish I still had my AMD card but it decided to brick itself for no apparent reason after it made horrible humming noises whenever it chose to ever since I bought it. I have an Nvidia card now and haven’t had a single issue on Windows yet, but maybe my days are counted to the moment I switch to Linux.
Yeah I’m on a 3070, I thought Pop had improvements for Nvidia stuff which is why I chose it.
it’s not a drop in replacement and anyone looking for one will be disappointed by literally anything available.
You’re learning an entirely new operating system, don’t think of it as an upgrade, this is a time sink. You’ll be under the hood more than on the road for the foreseeable future, but what’s the alternative?
I get that, and I love Linux, it’s just annoying to see people say that they switched with 0 issues and trying to sell it off like people won’t have problems.
I don’t understand why people can’t simply believe that someone could actually have very little issues with performance or settings after switching.
What About™ people who have issues when installing windows, as if that never happens.
I put both kinds of operating systems on a myriad of computers and sometimes it’s smooth sailing and sometimes it’s like stepping on rake after rake.
Its not that I don’t believe it, rather they are “selling” Linux as if there won’t be any problems, but whoever is making the switch will have to learn about troubleshooting. That’s a good thing, but something that they should be aware of.
I don’t really have a problem with “selling” Linux. You gotta take all things with a dose of skepticism.
Has anyone ever recommended a product of any complexity as an OS and then also listed all of the common issues people might encounter? When people talk about a product they like, of course it will highlight the positive things, but anyone who has ever touched a computer, hobbyist or not, knows these things might sometimes shit the bed in unexpected ways. I think that’s common sense.
Windows is said to have less problems, but the cryptic errors and non descriptive “wait while we do something” message without any other output actually makes solving problems harder. It has more users, so luckily that means someone out there probably has the issue documented so solutions are easier to find.
I use both, at home primarily Linux, at work primarily Windows. I had troubles in both that caused serious headaches, but generally they both work without too much problems.
This might have been a bit rambling 😅
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Try bazzite? It’s been cool with my setup. Intel processor with GTX 1660 ti.
Mint has been cool too! on a laptop with a 1650 on it
I’ve seen a lot of people recommending Pop_OS lately. Out of curiosity, what’s the benefit over something like Mint?
I’ll try to offer an answer to both you and @natedog526.
Pop came heavily recommended for a while because it’s relatively light-weight for a modern desktop, had some fresh UI ideas with its COSMIC plugins for Gnome, and ships with some nice bonuses for gamers like built in Steam and Nvidia setup scripts.
Unfortunately, it’s become pretty stale lately. I still use it daily on my main desktop, but lately it’s becoming harder and harder to keep from hopping to something new. A few pain points include Pop shipping older version of some important software like the Kernel, Wine, and Mesa, persistsant audio bugs like the other user mentioned, and basically no support for Wayland at the moment.
A lot of these are because System76 has been heavily focused working on its COSMIC desktop, which should function a full standalone desktop environment instead of Gnome with duct tape. It’s looking forward to seeing it which has so far kept me from switching, but with no release date and other distros offering what Pop offers, it’s harder and harder to stay put.
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Curious about this too. I was gonna spend some time trying some different distros. Both mint and PopOs are on my list.
If iRacing and my other sim racing gear worked with Linux I’d make the switch asap. I already have popOS on another hard drive and everything other than iRacing has worked well
Looks like iRacing is working on proton experimental as of 3 days ago At least according to a user on protondb
Yup, similar boat but with planes instead of cars. Most inputs Linux can support on a single usb device is 86 or so, my throttle alone has well over 150 buttons on it. Add in all the stuff for my sim cockpit (probably around 1000 buttons), my haptic feedback chair, and then VR… as much as I’d like to use Linux, I don’t think it’d be possible for the foreseeable future for me to switch.
I switched to Pop!_OS about 3 months ago and have been loving it! First Linux distribution that just worked for me, and every app works better than any other Linux or Windows 11 on the same hardware.
I did the same a few months back. No problems so far. Some older games require switching up the compatibility layer occasionally but no deal breakers so far.
Running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed right now and it’s great!
We need a successful replacement to DirectX for this to happen.
Look how desperate they are now for their web browser, imagine when people start abandoning Windows because there are other options that work just as well. I can’t wait.
We need a successful replacement to DirectX for this to happen.
Vulkan?
Definitely, I’m not saying that there aren’t any viable candidates out there now, but the title base for games that support Vulkan seems to be not even 1/10th of what DirectX 11 can support. It needs more acceptance I guess is what I mean.
Honestly even the as-is directX with Wine is already quite good. With Vulkan, game over :-)
That was my choice too. I made the jump to Mint earlier this year and couldn’t be happier. It took a little effort to get updated GPU drivers, and my games sometimes need an extra CLI argument added, but those things have been pretty quickly and easily found on the Mint forums, Ubuntu forums, or ProtonDB comments.
I haven’t touched my Windows PC since the steam deck came out. If you only care about games you don’t need Windows.
Linux can play most games nowadays. You can check if your games are compatible and to what extend they are not here https://www.protondb.com/
Switched to arch linux last november, didn’t had to launch my backup VM Win10 at all. I even managed to play at StarCitizen with better performance than under Win 10…
Just wow the progress of Linux, Wine & co since my last linux try (Ubuntu, around 2010).
I just need now to find a linux way for my music stack and all the VST (my steinberg usb card is recognized and play properly oO) and Windows will be history at home…
Yeah ive also had s Star Citizen running in Arch. My setup didnt support game updates though so every update needed a complete redownload of the entire game which got old real fast.
Also had Microsoft Flight Simulator running very well too which is peak irony. At first there was issues with satellite terrain and imagary as the networking was broken but a Proton update actually fixed that.
Im incredibly impressed on the type of heavy duty window games ive got working in linux, some working very well others with slight occasional issues.
Linux gaming isnt perfect but windows has never been either. Ive had plenty of experience over the years with some games just not running properly or at all in windows even though they should.
Ive found many older games generally run better in Linux now in respect to modern windows, despite the compatibility layers.
Why not start today, man? It’s good to practice.
Uncertainty, really.
What distro works with my setup: 3700x and rtx 4090?
Give pop-os a try if you’re running an nvidia. It was very much plug and play with my laptop and it works great.
You made my day!
If you had any real intention of making the shift, you’d have done so already. Protip: You know I’m right!
Genuine question, what’s the point of this comment?
The ‘as soon as Windows 10 can’t x I’m off to Linux!’ refrain is so routine in our circles it’s practically a meme. All someone says when they pontificate like this is that their true priority is can kicking rather than action.
I feel like someone who likes Win10 and is used to it would want to use it for as long as they can, before having to change to Linux.
This one is particularly harsh since win11 has ridiculous artificial hard stops on installation based on made up hardware requirements. Also it sucks.
This also makes it easy to block Win 10 from upgrading to 11, just disable tpm in BIOS. From where I’m sitting, that’s kinda convenient.
Ok, but where will you be be sitting on Oct. 15th 2025?
That’s a Oct 14th 2025 me’s problem
That’s where you grab a W10 Enterprise LTSC iso which has support until 2032.
Already got a surface running it.
Hol up. So m$ is still making the patches they’re just not releasing them to anyone but enterprise users? The whole end of service thing doesn’t actually free up any of their resources its just a soulless push for upgrade purchases?
Yep! 100% on the 👃
Where would you… find one of these? For a friend
There are a few copies floating around torrent sites.
Usually it’s sku conversion changes so it’s not an eval mode.
Or find a friendly neighborhood n3rd who might have one. 😉
Also you can entirely uninstall edge!
Dunno yet, sounds like future me’s problem. Mist likely some version of Linux unless win 11 drastically changes course (unlikely).
I imagine they’ll have backtracked on this decision long before then.
I have a PC I built that was absolutely top of the line 9½ years ago, that still plays most games in high to max settings. It’s a little powerhouse for its age, I often use it for rendering video and it still smokes everybody I know 's devices.
Windows 11 is too powerful for my PC according to Microsoft and I’ve been so pleased about that. If it wasn’t for the fact that I have no issues with my current windows 10 setup, I’d put in some time to jump to Linux. I’m just too lazy to give it the weekend it would take to learn, set up and move my content over properly.
Well to my knowledge there are (or at least were) workarounds to get win 11 to install anyway. It of course worked fine, despite saying it needed a TPM and/or specific minimum CPU.
From an eWaste perspective Microsofts decision to force literally millions of PCs into fake obsolescence is obviously horrible. And I honestly have no idea what their motivation even was for this.
As for trying Linux, these days it really isn’t even a weekend. Sure if you want to tinker and learn, you can invest a weekend. But if you want to just use the PC just pick any of the commonly recommended distros and just go. It’s installed in minutes and you can honestly just use the PC for whatever you used to use it before. Just backup/move your data off it and you got nothing to lose but like an hour, if it really doesn’t work as you need it to.
I’ve the newest AMD hardware available and I’m not able to upgrade. No idea what they want.
Hopefully you bought your fully assembled pc with an official Microsoft sticker already on the case right?
I’ve built the pc myself.
Lemmy probably isn’t the target audience for this, here’s the steps to bypass the MS account requirement when setting up W11:
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Configure your keyboard, but before you select your wifi network press Shift+(Fn)+F10 to open Command Prompt.
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Type in the following command and press enter. Your computer will reboot: oobe\bypassnro
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After the reboot, configure your keyboard and location settings, and click the option at the bottom of the page to say that you don’t want to connect to the internet
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Click the link on the next page to “Continue with limited setup”, then follow the prompts to enter a username and password.
Thank you. Now that I’ve showed you my appreciation, are you fucking kidding me?
Lemmy is exactly the audience for this, thanks!
It just seems like there are are more Linux users because they’re constantly bleating about it in smug, self-congratulary comments
Also, if you have windows 11 pro, you can do:
Sign in options Domain join instead Make local account
If you have windows 11 home you can:
put no@thankyou.com Use whatever as the password Hit next after the error message Make local account
I do this shit at least three times a week at my job. It’s the fuckin worst.
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This sounds like a problem for October 2025 me
Governments, schools, and companies just finished (for the most part) to move to Windows 10. So it really sounds more like a problem for 2030 to me.
Haha I remember having to help a school upgrade to Windows 7. Took a year just to get the approval, then another year to get the budget and keys.
Yup. Microsoft’s income depends on keeping them on the move.
That’s my feeling. I’ve been through this before.
Same.
And if it’s like the last four Windows updates, I’ll go right through EoL for a year or two, and finally upgrade because I wanted to play a specific video game, upgrade my graphic card, or it came free with my new PC.
October 2025 me: what the hell, why didn’t anyone tell me about this before!?!
I really want to see the EU force Microsoft to release a stripped down version that continues to support older hardware.
Can they do that?
It’s not out of the realm of possibility. They have been known to force Microsoft to make changes in the past. As well as Apple and other major software companies.
Edit: Grammar
Shouldn’t they just support Linux more? Maybe fund some driver development but otherwise - win?
One would think.
Linux costs next to nothing compared to Windows. So if companies want to cry about having to save on budget, go with the better option for it.
Who the fuck needs Office 365? Nothing has really changed on that software for years, it’s still the same shit. I don’t see anything different on Microsoft Word 2007 from it’s 365 counterpart. People are getting scammed.
The UI keeps changing…
My gf recently took one of those dumb ability tests on Indeed for an office job, shows you two screenshots of document editing and you answer which buttons achieve the desired effect. I opened Word on my laptop and all of the buttons were in different places compared to screenshots.
MS, just go sit down somewhere and stop fiddling with shit
BuT It HaS aI SuPpOrT NoW!
What a selling point.
I’m not too familiar with that side of things but I do believe they do. My understanding is that some organizations are set up as nonprofits and they contribute to the development of Linux.
Some European governments also use foss software for things like email and office.
But it’s easier to throw darts at a big company than lots of small things that add up to something big.
It already exists. Most of the requirements that break with current W10 machines are artificial and can be removed at install time with rufus (memory requirement, secure boot, TPM2, microsoft account).
Still not a solution; you should not have to fight against your OS design choices that much.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the EU require M$ to remove the artificial requirements and let 10 users on older hardware update.
Yeah it’s nice to know I have to build a new machine next year whether I want to or not. I’ve been coasting on a desktop PC I built circa 2015 because the thing works still. Problem is it doesn’t meet the hardware reqs (TPM 2.0) to upgrade to Win 11.
Whether I build a machine in 2025 or not I think I will be making the switch to daily driving Linux. I am sick of the amount of time the end user has to spend debloating Windows and blocking its telemetry.
So September 2025ish is when I need to decide which Linux distro to go with.
You can start by putting Linux on that old machine. I’d use Linux Mint to begin with.
Why wait with the switch until 2025?
You can bypass the TPM 2.0 requirements by pulling in your Windows 11 ISO into Rufus and then selecting to remove the TPM requirement in the prompt.
Drawback is when updating to new major releases of win11 (so I’ve heard) that you have to edit the registry.Just going Linux is way cleaner.
I suggest slowly switching to cross platform apps so you don’t find out an app you’re using daily won’t work after moving to Linux.
Are there TPM modules that one can drop in to motherboards to add that? I have TPM module headers, I keep wondering if I can get one to use with LUKS.
I think switching to Linux is the right choice regardless though.
Their hardware requirents don’t make sense at all. I’ve built my new PC last summer with the best AMD tech available and I don’t meet the requirements for some reason.
Time to learn Linux!
The steam deck is walking so we can run.
thanks, lemmy
Yeah, that’s… people need to stop prescribing Linux to solve everything from minor glitches ti major cloud outages to marital issues and erectile dysfunction…
Glitches and cloud outages happen on Linux too, but erectile dysfunction is definitely a Windows problem.
Similarly, had you switched to Arch in your teens, you would never have had marital issues.
But this is actually a windows issue
most of the people who are getting fucked by this are not going to be “switching to linux” or anything like that
There’s thousands of machines in my hospital. They’re staying on Windows. They’re fully invested in the Azure ecosystem, and for what it’s worth, it works well, but that’s after what I imagine is hundreds of thousands, maybe millions in investments. This is what makes me wonder if we home power users just aren’t the target demographic anymore. They know Proton is catching up super quick, and I’m not sure they’re willing to compete. Is it even worth it for them?
Just want to preemptively state: THIS IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION. NONE OF US ARE QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
yea see my comment here https://lemmy.world/comment/10252345
Azure is not tied to windows
How do you know if someone is a Linux user? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you. Lump them in with Vegans and Crossfitters.
If they really wanted people to upgrade to Windows 11, they’d take out the TPM and SecureBoot requirements.
Truly the Kinect of Windows 11.
upgrades don’t give them license fees, they want you to buy a new pc.
I still miss the Kinect. Shouting at people in Skyrim was awesome. They should have doubled down and added finger recognition for the Series K.
I actually bought an Xbox 360 Kinect for a grand total of £6 the other month.
Turns out you can use software called Amethyst for cheap full body tracking in PC VR games.
How do you connect that weird cable?
The ones from CEX came with it, it’s an odd adapter that needs power as well.
The adapter is worth more than the camera…
You have to buy an adapter to usb
Amethyst
That reminded me of AMD’s old Windows driver (accompanying software).
Same honestly. Like it was a hunk of junk that didn’t work half the time, but I think people kinda forget that the scope was pretty ambitious. Being able to scan people’s bodies and get each limb’s position in 3D, and to do so in many different lighting conditions and room setups, is stuff we still barely have working today even with AI.
Like don’t get me wrong, the tech was jank as fuck, but as a kid it was genuinely really cool.
They really want us to use Copilot AI, so that they can pushed more paying subscribers such as corpos and govts to use the service.
More money for microsucks, less jobs available to us
It looks like Windows 10 is going to be my last Windows operating system. Thanks to Microsoft.
I installed Linux Mint for the first time the other day and I’m thoroughly enjoying myself.
Thanks M$ for getting me to enjoy my pc again, as a Linux.
Same! It’s been great.
This is what will push me over to Linux too, just will be procrastinate a bit because I don’t have lots of time to work out all the kinks
Excited to see the increase in Linux desktop usage.
I’d temper those expectations tbh. I’ve still got customers on Windows XP.
Out of support does not mean “can’t be used”.
I agree. But using Windows XP these days is a huge security risk. W10 not getting security updates at least for the next 2 years is probably something that can be overlooked, but it will at some point be vulnerable to automatic attacks like XP. I’m sure there are some websites on the web that try to automatically exploit some major exploits that have been lrft unfixed in Windows XP. I’d advise them to switch to Linux Mint or something instead of using that old vulnerable system.
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The browser is the failure point and they get updated for a long time after the OS falls out of support. Chrome was supported for 8 years after Windows 7 stopped being officially supported.
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All their Windows software they need to run their business isn’t going to run reliably enough on any version of Linux. They don’t want to touch anything that’s working or pay for anything. You have to understand the world is not filled with OS enthusiasts. It’s just a platform to run other things. If it’s working and it’s making you money, you do not touch it, unless you really want to find out what OS they use at the Job Centre.
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I have an elderly friend that I will probably need to migrate as 1 of their 2 computers doesn’t support win11. I am fully able to migrate them, but I really want it themed(Plasma6 probably ) to look as much like 10 as they a dealing with cognitive decline and I don’t want to force them to relearn using their computer.
I need to start investigating, but I got over a year to do so. The other part is making sure the 2 pieces of proprietary software they use runs in wine. I expect both will, but need to check.
This is obviously something that developers probably don’t think about as much as an accessibility issue in general.
Yeah KDE Plasma looks and functions alot like W10.
I was thinking about this the other day. I support some very, very technologically limited users and I wondered if anyone out there is working on a distro/DE that looks and feels just enough like windows to get them by
I would never have considered this before they announced Recall. Now it feels like I’m waiting to see just how hard they push it
You might want to check our React OS.
I’m typing this from Linux mint, I play mainly video games and websurf but I choose this distro for the community support! Since I don’t know everything about linux I go here on lemmy, or reach out to the members via hexchat
I’m already seeing more traffic across reddit and youtube
As a long time Windows user, my SSD just shat itself last week. MS has been pissing me off with the constant “upgrade to Windows 11” messages that I’ve finally taken steps to change over to Linux. My experience has been as follows:
- Ubuntu has been hot garbage, half the things I’ve tried don’t seem to work, and Gnome is hot garbage for a newcomer (this might just be an Ubuntu issue)
- My current distro, Debian with Cinnamon, is pretty good. I don’t want the cutting edge of OS, I just want something that works and won’t bug me for major updates every other month.
- There is a learning curve. No matter what anyone tells you, you will need to at least be able to google and copy and paste some terminal commands in Linux. Anything more is a bonus.
- Linux can have a really pretty GUI after popping in a few changes to the default setup.
- Gaming has actually been pretty smooth. 0 issues Lutrix running games from GoG and Steam is not bad even those without Linux support 👍🏾
Brand new Linux user and you already hate Ubuntu, welcome, you are fitting in perfectly already. Half the things didn’t work probably because of their dumb Snap garbage.
For anyone else reading this and thinking about trying linux for the first time, be sure to use Linux Mint. It will give you the smoothest and easiest experience, and you pretty much never need the terminal. It even comes with a really nice software store (but everything is free).
Second this. Wanted Linux as Windows user. Currently on Linux Mint, got it a few months now. Really easy to use, and allows you to experiment with the console if you’d like to, but almost never necessary. So far, I haven’t encountered any problems with it (apart from a total lock-out while trying some weird shit in the console with printer drivers, but printers are evil anyway, so I’ll give it a pass for now lmao)
Its the Data harvesting that’s irking me. Not that data harvesting is new; but that i have a dreadful sense of M$’ “AI” scheming just crosses a rubicon of data harvesting.
I’m backing away slowly. Dont care what games or executables i wont be able to run. Get ready for the accusations that im the “radical arch-loving myopic lemmy elite”: it’s finally time to run *nix as host.
Soon, you’ll be saying “i use arch btw”. It’s only a matter of time. >:D
Dont care what games or executables i wont be able to run
Between Wine and Proton that’s basically a non issue anymore, go ahead and make the switch. The era of windows exclusive software is pretty much over.
Year Of The Linux Desktop
Well this will be the month where I install PopOS
I’d recommend doing a dual boot sooner and slowly shifting your files & apps. It took me about 3 months to find a distro and desktop environment i like, get my apps or alternatives installed, and get used to it.
If you wait until EOL, you may be overwhelmed and frustrated, increasing the likelihood of calling quits and accepting Windows 11.
Thanks for the advice. I have run Fedora in the past so I have an idea of the alternatives I need. I will probably listen to your wisdom and dual boot
I’m enjoying Pop_OS for 3 months now. No issues.
i cant access my laptops bios anymore tho after installing pop os
systemctl reboot --firmware-setupThat will reboot to UEFI setup instantly.
oh thank you i will try
