• vaper@lemmy.world
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    21 hours ago

    The catch-22 is that if the people with environmental values don’t have kids, those values aren’t passed on to the next generation (unless they become teachers or media personalities).

    • Slotos@feddit.nl
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      20 hours ago

      You don’t need to have kids to pass on values. The basic premise of your statement doesn’t hold up.

      • vaper@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        Well, like I mentioned you still need some sort of interaction with kids. Or maybe influence their parents enough to have them indirectly pass on those values you imparted on them. But I still think that if the smartest, kindest, most compassionate people among us stop having kids… well then that’s not great for that next generation. I’ve just always felt that giving up one of the primary factors of life, reproduction, seems very defeatist. But on the other hand, if someone genuinely doesn’t want children then by all means don’t.

        • Otter@lemmy.ca
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          19 hours ago

          I know at least one friend that wants to adopt/foster once they’re ready, instead of having biological children.

          The justification was similar to what you said, where they want to pass on their values / legacy, but don’t care about the genetic side

          • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
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            19 hours ago

            This is the answer. The problem is the huge expense to adopt at least in the US. Money that could make a better life for the child being adopted is taken by the state.

            We need to streamline adoption while still vetting the potential parents as unlikely to be abusive.

        • errer@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          Yeah this has always pissed me off with my non-parent friends. You really think you have that much influence on random kids you have fleeting interactions with? Unless you’re a teacher or in some other position where it’s your job to interact with kids, your opinions aren’t getting passed down to anyone.

          • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
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            18 hours ago

            They could always get more involved with their community. They don’t have to be a parent or have some specialized education to be a coach or volunteer at a youth center.

            My scoutmaster did more to instill honesty, leadership ability, and respect for community in me than my mom or absent father ever did.

            Now in my career I take mentoring new hires more seriously than anything other than general safety. My company hires a lot of young men with no direction and shitty childhoods. It’s not as good as getting to them when they’re young, but when I’m their only friend 200 or 800 miles from home I get the privilege to impart some important ideas and philosophies.

            • errer@lemmy.world
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              17 hours ago

              Scoutmaster is a job that works with kids, so I agree with you there. And mentoring is important too. But these things are less important than the impact you make as a parent. For most people the family is the anchor.

    • GHiLA@sh.itjust.works
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      20 hours ago

      Any society that doesn’t impart those values across the board to its citizens will devolve into shit regardless.

      It’s basically just math.

      People with zero values are going to fuck like rabbits and people with values aren’t.

      If trash family has 5 kids they can’t take care of and a dad that leaves, that’s at least 4 really mad poor kids that are going to blame a lot on somesuch minority for their problems in 18 years.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      For all those values, even in yourself. There’s no better motivator to make an effort for the future, than having a kid you want the best for. If you don’t have a kid, you’re not passing your environmental values, or you educational values, or all the other values you may have for what makes a better society. Nor do you have any reason to hold to them yourself.

      I don’t mean to try to push anyone toward having kids, but if you do want to have kids but give up thinking the world is getting worse, that decision is part of the world getting worse. If you do want kids, there’s all sorts of opportunity to make this a better world for both yourself and them, and longer, and plenty of opportunity to make an actual difference

      Just passing along the value of the bidet may be worth it, according to the comic

      • Lustrate@lemm.ee
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        20 hours ago

        By that rote though everyone that has had children in the past has cared for their future and the future of the social and actual environment they will inherit. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if any semblance of that was true.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          There are plenty of reasons to think this true, and plenty of reasons the world is getting better over time. Maybe not the next four years, and maybe not for everyone, but there are so many stays at global and national levels that have trended up for decades and continue to do so.

          And before someone single-minded chimes in about Gaza. War and atrocity has always been an ugly part of our history and also has trended downward over the last several decades. Just the fact that we can get so worked up about ending atrocities somewhere else in the world that doesn’t affect us, is a great sign for the future

    • kreskin@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      It seems like vanishingly few people in the US care about the good of broader humanity anymore. Destroying the environment is fine as long as it creates jobs. Poisoning the water tables forever with fracking is fine as long as it makes cheap gas. Genocide was supported by both parties in the last election. Both parties are waving guns around even as school kids die in ever more frequent mass shootings. Its a race to the bottom and no one cares to change course.