There should be a warning label on any establishment or product that requires a smartphone to use.
How about this:
At the apartments I recently moved out of, there were no quarter slots on the washing machines. They were an app that required a bluetooth connection to pay.
So if you lived there and didn’t have a smartphone? Go fuck yourself, you don’t get to do laundry.
Unless you bothered to check the laundry room when you were looking at the apartment, you wouldn’t know. No warnings.
That…
Is that not illegal where you live?
It’s not even required that apartment buildings have laundry services at all. There are commercial storefront laundromats in the US which serve as the ground floor for where people do their laundry. Until landlords are required to provide laundry, it will be hard to legislate what payment forms they must accept.
Tbf, my building also uses an app for laundry. However they also have a machine in the laundry rooms where you can purchase an NFC payment card and put money on it. So you can use it without the app. Is that not the case with yours? If not, that’s 100% fucked
quarter slots on the washing machines
Thank god they decided to keep these free where I live
That depends a bit on if it was advertised or not to have a laundry room. At least here in NL it is more common to have your own washing machine than to use a shared one so having a laundry room would be an extra to start with.
Still sucks though
The more insane thing here for me is the fact that there isn’t a washing machine inside your apartment.
(btw lived in such once, apparently the owner wasn’t very wealthy. We washed everything by hand)
It’s actually incredibly common in US apartments for laundry to be a common area.
Having a unit in your apartment means you’re at least well-to-do. Poor people can mostly go fuck themselves.
Well-to-do? That is weird, because here not having a washing machine in the apartment would be weird even for a poor person.
US hates poor people. I’m poor, I know from experience. They hold homelessness over us as a threat to keep in line.
We went from during the pandemic, treating “essential workers” as “heroes” while not increasing their pay for risking their lives, to now, straight back to how it used to be, screaming at overworked underpaid people “You’re lucky to have a job!” as they break our bodies and then discard us once our bodies are broken. I know caregivers who have broken backs because they have to lift 350lb people without the proper equipment and they don’t get paid enough to afford to live in an apartment alone.
The number of people trapped in outright dangerous relationships just to afford a place to live is too damn high. It’s a massive human rights issue, and the US will never address it under current leadership. They treat poverty as something that happens to bad people. They believe that their wealth proves that they are good people. They are myopic fools.
They fucking hate us. Anything to make us feel low, they will do.
Where I am, the median salary is around $400-$500. I know how you feel.
You’ve never seen The Big Bang Theory?
No I have not, heard it is offensive and unfunny.
Well, I was merely asking because I know about shared laundry rooms being a thing in US because of that show.
I understand its probably the norm where you are but why aren’t they just free to use? You pay rent…
There was a food truck I went to one time that required you to download some app to look at their menu and order your food. They refused to accept a credit card or cash. I walked. So fucking stupid. I don’t know why people allow shit like that to exist.
Any time I’m required to use an app for something that could be a website, I leave the app a one star review.
Phone apps are nothing more than modern toolbars. And in case you forgot or missed this phase of the internet…
Click to win a FREE LOBSTER Dinner 🦀🦞🦐
Man I miss this era of the internet. It truly felt like a new frontier.
I clicked, but all I got was a dancing stripper and something called Conficker.
I want a re-made Bonzi buddy with AI.
I don’t vouch for these, as I have not used them. But, I found this rewritten one and this one with LLM.
Yeah, Bonzi Buddy!
needs more sheep
I remember toolbar days… I used to lov— sorry i admit this … Installing them … shivers for my sins
Could you expand on that thought a bit more? How is an app like the internet tool bars of old?
Genuinely curious. I’m a little too young to have experienced internet toolbars like the ones in your image.
Every service and site had their own malicious toolbar they’d ask you to install and / or* sneak it into the install for other software. They also came loaded with malware and or siphoned data from you. Older/more tech illiterate people would have browsers looking like the picture above and come to you wondering why their computer is so slow or why they keep getting viruses.
Plus the even simpler: apps are like browser “toolbars” because they’re just a veneer to collect more data, add more tracking, appear to be useful without actually benefitting the user over a simple web page
Ohh, I see. That makes a lot of sense. I understand the comparison now, ty 🙏
@alekwithak @techforwhat Norton Antivirus is still at it
Hooboy
I missed that phase because I was using Netscape.
Then you didn’t miss it. You glossed over it, like a boss
Then you could agree with any barely computer-savvy person that such things should be killed with fire.
Now a lot of very competent person will try to persuade you how you are a luddite and wrong, except 5-10 years ago they’d also promise some bright tech future in addition to that, and now you’re just wrong because they can exist in that environment and like it, and you can’t.
you can’t.
Can, but refuse. Big distinction for me. I’ve lived through these arguments once already, and have watched their computers keel over and die several time from the viruses these toolbars often bring, and I will now watch as their phones do the same.
I flat-out refuse to do business with any that requires I use an app. I won’t even scan a QR code for a restaurant menu; that’s my cue to go eat elsewhere.
I don’t mind the whole online menu thing. It’s probably an environmental net positive, but it’s bs if they don’t have ANY physical copies for those who can’t or don’t want to for whatever reason.
If they wanted me to install something, though, that’d be a 100% instant nope.
I mean I simply refuse to as QR code phishing is a thing
You might enjoy SecScannerQR then. It makes it easier to vet QR codes by giving an option to search for the URL instead of going there directly.
Ooh. Now do iOS.
Ew
No, you stop doing iOS.
I mean you just need to audit the URL before going there.
An online menu requires power to be used (on people’s phones and the server). Is that really a minor contribution in comparison to printing paper and maybe laminating it?
Considering your average printer is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced quite often, yes, using a website is probably more energy efficient.
Most companies will be using laser printers, some of which may outlive me. Toner is cheap and lasts an age.
Inkjet printers are cheap for a reason. They’re a scam.
That and those servers are going to be running anyway. Powering a simple restaurant website is a grain of sand on the beach of internet usage.
Yeah, exactly. If you’re worried about the power draw to host a few hundred KB PDF file, you probably shouldn’t be using Lemmy, because scrolling through your feed probably uses 100x that in energy costs.
You have to remember that the shared hosting or aws, or wherever is going to be cheapest to host a simple website is also going to be very power efficient. Wasting power is just throwing away free money, and if there’s one thing corporations don’t do, it’s throw away free money.
Generally companies use service contracts to keep those things working so mo they wouldn’t be replaced often. They are just a piece of shit
This person has never seen the power bill for running a high-availability server with several failovers once in their lives.
In fairness neither have I - though I suspect it’s not as insignificant as others have claimed.
It’s not insignificant at all. Servers are beefy and take more power than a standard PC… a lot more. Further, failover servers mean you have to have exact copies of the same server up and available, which means you’re doubling, tripling, quadrupling power demands. Finally, you also have to have Uninterruptible Power Supplies, those take an amount of power as well.
It’s a huge power draw. I know because I have a bunch of low-power devices runnig 24/7 as microservices and it still increase my power bill and use by a lot. I regularly get letters from the power company about how I’m using like 3x the power of the average person in my type of unit.
I regularly get letters from the power company about how I’m using like 3x the power of the average person in my type of unit.
I’m also using a lot of self hosted things but have never received any of those.
Where do you reside generally where they’re sending them because it ain’t a thing here in the UK?
I had not considered that an uninterruptible power supply would be consuming power after charging. I suppose no electronics are 100% efficient at what they do.
I’ve been playing with a Proxmox server on an ITX system for local services and rare game hosting for friends. I’d love something low power I could have on all the time.
-
You can host a webserver on a Raspberry Pi. I don’t know what you’re doing with your setup but you absolutely do not need hundreds of watts to serve a few hundred KB worth of static webpage or PDF file. This website is powered by a 30 watt solar panel attached to a car battery on some guy’s apartment balcony. As of writing its at 71% charge.
-
An Ampere Altra Max CPU has 128 ARM cores (the same architecture that a raspberry pi uses), with a 250 watt max TDP. That works out to about 2 watts per core. Each of those cores is more than enough to serve a little static webpage on its own, but in reality since a lot of these sites get less than 200 hits per day the power cost can be amortized over thousands of them, and the individual cores can go to sleep if there’s still not enough work to do. Go ahead and multiply that number by 4 for failover if you want, its still not a lot. (Not that the restaurant knows or cares about any of this, all this would be decided by a team of people at a massive IT company that the restaurant bought webpage hosting from).
-
Scan QR code. Order on your phone. Pay on your phone. Asks for a tip.
So uh, what exactly am I tipping you here for dawg?
that stuff is nice as an option. There’s a bar I go to that I can order my food and drink to the table my friends are at, while I’m walking to the place, and everything just arrives shortly after I sit down. Other people get offended about how fast I get served, it’s always amusing. I also enjoy not interacting with the staff, nothing against them, brain just doesn’t brain sometimes.
But what if I didn’t have a phone? or if I left home without it? 24/7 pocket rectangle is not natural.
Losing your phone now is like losing not just your wallet but simple access to everything.
The funny thing about qr codes for restaurant menus to me, as someone that studied menu design. Is that actual menus are designed specific ways make the restaurant more profit and make it easier for people to find what they want. Whereas qr codes often bring one to a hastily designed list of categories which are not only less intuitive but also less manipulative. So people will end up taking longer to order less profitable dishes.
Hell yeah, consumer win. I like selecting an item and it offers me changes or addition options that I never would have considered!
But really, it means they can hire less people so they gain profit anyway.
I’ve been to some that try to upsell you during the checkout process. Big pop up comes up “Add x to your order for $y.99!” Shut the fuck up!
One of these seems to be one of the best ways to order pizza from Papa John’s.
They usually have a special for a Large Pizza for pickup, and at the checkout, you can ignore the add-ons and choose “make it extra large” and it’s the best deal I’ve seen for papa johns XL pizza.
Worst thing about qr menus for me is that when I finally order, I have to give my phone number and address. Bro, I’m sitting across from the kitchen and just want dumplings. Why I gotta dox myself for that?
Dennis Takes a Mental Health Day is probably the most accurate portrayal of me ever written.
I literally had to switch bank accounts because I couldn’t reset my password “on the web” and required me to use Virgin Money’s app.
Customer service agent(s) on the phone after prolonged discussions why their app wouldn’t work on three Android phones right in front of me surfaced, and I shit you not
Well sir, I have my iPhone here and can login just fine maybe you should buy one of those instead
That day I found out about this
have you tried stop being poor?!
Begin by just getting a house already.
So am so tired of people crying about it.
JFC just ask mom and dad for the down payment… Can’t you holdna a steady job?!
Maybe I could try buying and scalping an iPhone on eBay
:thinky face:
Kids these days just don’t want to work
See that’s the thing, I work far too hard and after a night shift and then getting onto a “customer support” agent reveals the cracks in our society.
Maybe you could work harder too!
Everyone I know works pretty hard and is underpaid but the teeveeue keeps saying nobody wants to work.
Deep inside I know the teevee never lies 🤡
It was the sheer arrogance of that “supervisor” I escalated it to and I hate to think how someone like a pensioner would’ve dealt with them that day wanting to access their bank account, especially since all the local branches have been closed 👺
RIP Yorkshire Bank
Everything by Virgin is shit. I don’t understand why they’re so big
Dude that comment would make my blood boil, like holy shit.
Your switch is guaranteed
The Current Account Switch Service makes switching your current account simple, reliable and stress-free. You could even switch with an overdraft, just speak to your new bank first.
Over 11 million current accounts have been switched so far and over 50 banks and building societies are already part of the service.
The Account Switch Service Guarantee means your new bank will switch your payments and transfer your balance, and your old bank will take care of closing your old account. So you don’t need to worry.
If you don’t have a smart phone in the US, even temporally, your almost a second class citizen.
Then if you don’t install corporate apps on your phone, there are even more problems for you.
You can still live in the US without apps… For now
Social Friendly Browser can usualky get around this
I remember this being true almost as soon as smart phones and QR codes were invented. There were so many things you just couldn’t do as easily if you didn’t have one. Even in 2006.
I use GraphineOS on my Pixel 7 and even I feel penalized for caring about my privacy. Its absolutely nonsense, not everything needs an app.
These useless apps make Linux phone adoption harder, fuck them!
I still miss firefox os and feel sad for them not succeeding. Their app system could have become a multiplatform standard and allow us to have much more options in the smartphone market, as well as better desktop integration and interoperability :(
that is your takeaway? You’re part of a cult if that’s really how you think.
Part of a cult for wanting more options…
Ill be part of that cult
Not more options, you want your option to win.
And? Apple and Google are too big and influential as they’re. Why go attacking the little guys?
You’re an idiot or you’re trolling, I honestly can’t tell.
I’m never trolling about Linux. On Lemmy there are so many cultists that you can say the most innocuous things and it will be downvoted to oblivion or deleted for “trolling”. Maybe you don’t like calling it a cult but I get more downvoted for negative comments about Linux than other people do when they literally say Nazi things.
And then you get people like this…I mean what kind of broken prejudiced brain do you have to have to think this comparison is ok?
“You’re a cultist!” screamed the cultist, angry at people for using something other than what the cultist prefers.
innocuous
Calling people “cultists” doesn’t sound very “innocuous”.
Because a Linux phone is objectively superior, duh
What does that even mean?
Most people here would be satisfied with a working website they can access from any browser or OS, mobile or desktop.
We want other options to be allowed to exist. This is “you just want everyone to be gay/trans/whatever” all over again.
Oof you’re comparing government suppression of entire classes of people to linux’ failure to attract developers to the platform… How do you not realize you’re in a cult???
Plenty of developers use Linux every day – the problem is it’s not a viable choice for users because of anti - competitive practices by Google and Apple and probably others
everyone wants to force you to use apps instead of websites, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of apps are just websites…in a app wrapper, because normal websites and normal browsers have inbuilt protections for you.
Apps don’t.
Idiots install apps, give them the 400,000 permissions they ask for, then go on their merry way…ignorant to the fact that they just installed a data vacuum on their phone thats siphoning everything off of it to be used and sold and resold for marketing purposes… Even the phone itself its not safe, cause its sitting there, listening to your conversations, even when not on a call, to more “Accurately” spam you with bullshit.
because normal websites and normal browsers have inbuilt protections for you.
Ding ding ding.
This is why I install such shit only if i have to, and only on vm
Yep, 100%. That digital coupon is you getting paid $0.33 for the data they collected from you.
Phones are not listening and if you have proof post it. No security researcher has ever posted this.
[https://youtu.be/0dGqR4ue8dg](Idk i trust Snowden’s take on this over yours)
See:
- MindShift
- Cox Media Group (Alternative non-subscriberwalled link here)
yeah yeah, people said the same thing about google home and amazon alexa for years… until data leaks proved that was a lie, too.
It’s called “Active Listening”
https://www.404media.co/heres-the-pitch-deck-for-active-listening-ad-targeting/
As I’ve been making an effort to replace apps with the browser version of the service. It’s so abundantly clear that companies don’t want you using their website.
Even if they don’t outright cripple functionality, they’ll hound you endlessly to install the app.
It’s infuriating to say the least.
Even if they don’t outright cripple functionality, they’ll hound you endlessly to install the app.
Still don’t understand the logic of doing that.
It’s like saying,
“Our website is nigh unusable, please install our app instead. We pinky promise our app works”.
I for one cheer and root for my flip phone friends.
I’d never do it, but we have one at work and he’s singlehandedly causing so much grief at work. Because none of the engineers wanna use a security app for login. They want a fob.
IT refuses to pay for fobs and wants us to use an app, but they also don’t want to pay for a phone for anyone in engineering just to use the security app because it opens a floodgate of people with company phones.
It’s just wonderful to watch this fight from the sidelines sipping tea.
what’s the rationale for IT not wanting to pay for the fobs?
Presumably they’re expensive and someone needs to manage them.
My company’s approach is “we’ll pay your phone bill if you use an Authenticator app on your phone.” Cheaper for them, plus they don’t need to buy company phones or fobs, and who’s going to complain about their phone bill getting paid?
A previous company tried similar but required putting your phone under enterprise management. A lot of us disagreed with that
They’re not expensive at all.
Well, my old company sure made a ridiculous profit selling them. You may be looking at the cost per fob hardware, but not including the management cost. They are much more expensive than an authentication app, plus authentication apps are mostly managed by someone else, and you don’t have distribution overhead
In my experience, the only thing that really made them more difficult than managing end users who were using an authentication app instead was having to facilitate getting the fob to the users and replacing them occasionally and they were dirt cheap… Like less than $5 apiece.
what exactly is the management cost here?
at my old company they simply ordered a yubikey for you amd forgot about it. nobody kept track of it. i didn’t even need to return mine when i was leaving. the part they manage is the user account. the hardware you get once and use for added security…
This may be relevant
Managers probably sold apps as a cost cutting measure
My job does this too. It’s literally just cost cutting. The fobs expire and need to be replaced every so often but the app lasts “forever”.
IMO the fobs pay for themselves because what they are spending on fobs is the same as what they’re spending on IT members answering calls all day for employees that are having login issues with the app.
I worked a job where I had to have an app that tracked me wherever I went. I finally had to tell my boss I couldn’t use it anymore because it was killing my battery in like 3 hours.
If I was still working and a job wanted me to put an app on my personal phone I’d tell them to go fuck themselves.
Just another way capitalists thieve money from its workers.
I for one cheer and root for my flip phone friends.
Why are you cheering for a lack of self-control?
Smartphones are great. You just need to be smart enough to not let them use you.
It should put into perspective who is a useful idiot, and who is not.
Perhaps his friends do not have smart phones, because they do not want smart phones.
Yes, but why don’t they want smartphones?
It’s also a gigantic information harvesting ploy.
Even if I was willing to download all of those apps I don’t have room for them. They chew up 50-300mb each (why!?) and if I installed all of them I’d run out of memory. Since most phones now don’t support memory expansion I have to be picky about which ones I use.
I have THREE separate parking apps because I travel.
The reason they’re so huge is
- They’re generally not well optimized by the creators.
- They all contain their own dependencies
- There’s a LOT of stuff in them (both code and dependencies). Which is kind of an optimization problem, but potato potato.
Mobile apps are also loaded with third party ad and spyware frameworks which bloats up the size.
Same thing with rendering/layout/functionality frameworks. And each app has their own.
My favorite Android app, Trail Sense, which has the ability to know when sunrise and sunset are without Internet, is like 10MB
most phones now don’t support memory expansion
Well of course not. If phones supported memory expansion you would just buy more memory, instead of buying an entirely new phone Don’t even get me started on how bloated these apps have become. I used Paperclip word processor on a Commodore-64; you can not convince me that your app needs to be 50+ Megs in size.
You can’t compare (what is arguably) the peak of human computing to modern phones.
…I miss the c64
Edit: fixed pique to peak. Sorry. Autocorrect got me again
deleted by creator
And that’s one of the benefits from open source apps. I have a very low end and dated phone, and yet I have more apps installed and hardware functionality than the average person, because I grab everything I can from f-droid. It’s amazing how much smaller and performant everything is.
Have you looked at Obtainium? It pulls apps directly from their release page, or f-droid repos.
I see people mentioning obtainium, but never tried it. Will it give some relevant benefits over fdroid for low end devices?
No benefits regarding performance. But you get faster updates and more apps than on f-droid.
I actually wrote my own text editor for the C-64
Every app is a bundle of a full website and spyware.
A mobile app requirement is an easy excuse for me to nope the fuck out.
My old apartment had gates that could only be opened with an app. They took out the card reader and made it app only. Should have gotten out of there much earlier than I did.
Yeah, that’s a nope from me. I’m trying to eliminate as many apps from my life as I can.
the gates that slide over using a chain, they often have a removable link at the end. If you unhook the chain on the opener side, it will open one more time, then spit all the chain out trying to close it. I used to take that link out when living in complexes with those gates. Made life easier for most. Would take months for it to get fixed. They are just standard 1/2in x1/8in bike chain.
I don’t live there anymore, but if I did this would be useful information.
I think I forgot to mention that they had cameras pointed at the gates, and I have an extremely identifiable appearance.
That is what I noticed. Everything these days require app to get shopping vouchers, book tickets, go in to your local gym, pay in store (we are being weaned off from using cash) etc.
I can’t even go to a high school football game without having an app.
