I’ve seen around 3 occasions of that this week, altho I have never seen anything like it before.
if I remember correctly they were:
- smack talking a mod (FlyingSquid) for saying not to report the same comment twice, when they were different comments, and the report was spam
- someone comparing .world with .ml in politics (as in there was a comment saying "this post will be overrun with .ml people, and then a comment going “but you are from .world”) (Maybe Im part of the problem? I have been called out for being a fascist because I questioned the “puching nazis” theme)
- one more which I can’t remember.
Anyways, what is all that about? Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
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Thanks for asking this btw. Just found it with a quick search wondering the same thing after reading yet another comment section (this one about Trump, Musk and JD Vance) that turned into 50% whinging about .world mods/admin and horrible reddit users turning their lemmy into a shithole. The answers you got here were really helpful for me to understand a bit more about the context/history of these spaces.
No problem, I was just curious, and I guess you had the same question :)
Its an incredibly pro US biased instance despite not being hosted in the US and having a .world domain.
Greatest hits are politics@lemmy.world forbidding non-US topics and of course news@lemmy.world and its bias check bot according to which every non US media is left wing biased.
God that fucking bot.
The bot itself is only mildly offensive, but the fieflord bot-love is just repugnant.
About a month ago news did a “feedback about the bot” thing, in which they declared undying love for the bot above all things and declared any input other than breathless support for the bot to be vote manipulated misinformation.
There were about 3 mods involved, all contradicting each other, and themselves, very condescending, and very sooky and sulky. “One of the mods almost resigned over this!” kind of stuff.
You had to start every comment with “look I know you guys are doing your best and investing all your free time as volunteers but…”
To be fair, considering the right wing hellscape our (US) Overton window overlooks the bias bot might actually have a point.
Oh no. Just no. We’ve found more than enough cases of bias to call it unreliable at best and a cover for washing conservative sources at the worst.
What is this the third time I’ve agreed with you on something? See, common ground.
The bot posts in world news which allows non us news.
It not trying to criticize the right wing bias of political discourse it’s trying to normalize it and apply it to non US issues and media.
I was simply telling a joke, but point well taken.
The bot is bad and jonsjava is a real piece of shit just by themself.
Both should be blocked… It is DNC komissars run them subs
It’s a battle of political ideologies.
ml is administered by the creators of Lemmy, they are openly socialist/communist/tankie depending on your own ideology, ml was chosen to represent Marxism-Leninism, and so the people it attracted are generally also adhering to this kind of ideologies.
.world was created for Redditors exile, as such, it is mostly center-left to social democrat.Political extremists tend to extremise everything, typically a tankie will call you a Nazi/fascist if you disagree with them. That’s one of your answer.
Secondly, some ml people are frustrated that Lemmy is not their own little thing anymore for them and their friends, as world is the biggest instance now by far. So they show some kind of instance-xenophobia, not much different from the Great Replacement theory: “we are being culturally replaced through mass migration”.
Not all .ml people are like that of course. In my experience, it is enough to block a few tankies to get back to civilized discussions.
I’ve yet to see anyone in .world ban someone simply for having a political affiliation. The tankie communities flat-out ban for being “liberal.”
Granted, it’s been a while since I e seen this happen, the admins/mods there do not hide their bias.
I made the mistake of being an anarchist on ml and hexbear.
Waay, waaaaaay too many tankies getting insanely pissed off and swarm when you criticize (point out obvious facts, really) any non US/Western countries or allies along anarchist lines.
It rapidly devolves into idpol, rants and tirades that are barely related to the topic or comment, Fox News style ‘I’m just asking questions in good faith’ which are obviously not in good faith if you’re older than maybe 10.
I dare someone to go ml or grad or hex and attempt to have a serious and thorough conversation about the Sino-Vietnamese war. Or Uighurs. Or the Holodomor. Or whether the concept of self-determination applies to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Palestine at the same time.
I remember at one point explaining a meme that popped up on some China’s social media site that boiled down to ‘Deng Xiaoping’s reforms have led to Chinese women craving giant Black cocks’, and all of them being just fine with incels and racism when its not Westerners doing it.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin. Although that is more rare, it does happen.
EDIT: Its somewhat sad, as it is great fun when everyone is dogpiling on some new latest insane western neocolonialism or corporate incompetence/hellscape type stuff, but I treat those places like Ravenholm:
We don’t go there anymore.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin
That’s an instaban from hb, grad, and .ml, did you report that post?
I’ve seen bans there for Calling out horseshoe theory. As if it’s a slur
No, I was already banned from a bunch of communities for discussing the aforementioned things and I just blocked the instances … 6 months ago I think?
Anarchists aren’t allowed to report queerphobia on Hexbear. Because Hexbear keeps banning anarchists.
One of the admins, Nakoichi, is an anarchist. But please point me at the queerphobia, I’m not banned from hb, I’ll report it, I have faith they’ll do something about it.
This is false. Anti-AES anarchists are banned, because sectarianism is banned.
Drag has no problem with the Advanced Encryption Standard, which is the first Google result for AES.
Craziest part is when they horseshoe so hard that you have ‘communists’ arguing that LGBTQ are degenerate vermin. Although that is more rare, it does happen.
If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
The culture where these sorts of blatant lies are accepted without question is my biggest problem with .world. You can have whatever actual beliefs you want, but lying like this is really despicable.
Please show any sources for this garbage, these are all bannable offenses on Grad, Hexbear, and .ml.
Oh people have tried I’m sure. They are banned now.:-)
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I’m not against eating ass, but it depends who’s ass it is.
First off, I’m only eating female ass. Secondly, she’s gotta be above 25 years old…and even that’s kinda young. Thirdly, she’s gotta shower well. I want that butthole to be CLEAN! And lastly, I gotta love her. I’m not just gonna go out on a first date at The Olive Garden, and then go home to her place and start eating ass! Hey, how’dya do? MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH!!! No, I have to have a connection to her.
So I’m not “No Eat Ass”, but I’m not 100% pro “Eat Ass” either. But I guess you guys would just call me a centrist, and I’d get attacked from both sides for not being far enough on their side.
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I mean…which flavor are the enemas?
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Look at what this country has come to!
Extremism :- (
“Nazis” flooding lemmy to replace the poor tankies (c. 2023):
I hope people point out that they and the fascists both agree on Great Replacement theory lol
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A lot of this boils down to consequences of lemmy.world being the largest instance: typical Reddit users beeline for it, trolls go there, larger comms so more frequent issues with moderation, people who fail to distinguish between “we shouldn’t concentrate our activity into the largest instance” and “largest instance bad! EDIT WOW THANKS FOR LE GOLD TO LE KNEE KIND STRANGER!”, so goes on.
Back when reddit* was just starting to fall to shit, I had already been dipping my toes in the mastodon water, and while I really liked the instance I was on it did not have enough people on it to properly surface good collections of off node traffic.
Knowing that Mastodon had the problem, I didn’t dick around with smaller nodes. To be honest it’s still a fight if you’re on a node with only a handful of people, you have to do something to mitigate the lack of community traffic in the face of lacking discoverability.
People are doing that here though - e.g. the user Blaze made accounts on basically every instance, and subscribed to every community. This gets around the limitation where at least one user of an instance must subscribe to a community before it will even so much as show up for others to also subscribe. Really the developers should have made better automation so that this was not necessary, but… anyway it works, for now:-).
(If true) that’s actually really terrible for federation performance, particularly because lemmy doesn’t do batch synchronization. So basically every comment, post, like, and community is being sent to all Lemmy servers as individual sequential requests. That’s a lot to handle.
Supposedly that will change with v0.19.6 (A recent discussion about that here: https://feddit.org/post/3524876), but yeah it’s causing smaller instances such as Aussie.Zone to have delays of over 7 days.
I also expressed disbelief that this info would not be bundled somehow - at least put together a package for everything that happened across the entire instance in one second, or one minute could be far better, for servers that can’t handle the per-second traffic?
Well that’s good!
And right, I had the exact same thought… It seems like the lemmy devs are not highly experienced web developers, at least not that have worked on anything at the scale lemmy became after the Reddit exodus.
I thought at first that everything was simply slow to develop bc of using the Rust programming language.
Now I hold great excitement for the upcoming projects like Sublinks, Piefed, Mbin, and Tesseract (that one is more a front-end UI for whatever backend protocol). But Lemmy still has all the effort put into it in the past so it is ahead for that reason at least.
I’m eyeing Piefed and Sublinks. I’ve done a lot with Python and Java… Maybe at some point I’ll find the time to contribute more than the bit of PR review I’ve done for Sublinks.
I’m also watching mastodon, particularly because they’re working on groups… And I don’t mind the Twitter style, I’ve just come to prefer following topics over people… And hashtags just get flooded with low effort crap.
That’s nice! ☺️
I feel like ActivityPub implemented federation in a really weird way, and that’s what causes problems like @linearchaos@lemmy.world is reporting, or the issue that Blaze is addressing through multi-accounting. Perhaps we shouldn’t be sharing content across instances but only credentials.
For example. If you’re registered to instance A, and B federates with A, then B would let you post from your A account as if you were registered to B. Then let the retrieval of the content of different instances up to the front-end, instead of mirroring it.
No, the whole point for the federation is to share the content. For one, it allows redundancy so that if a rogue mod or admin decided to delete a bunch of stuff, then every other instance still retains copies of what came from it.
But that said, having to keep everything up to the second, in batches of a single action, is extremely limiting. If I downvote someone with an accidental button press, then undownvote them, then upvote - that could have been just one net interaction to send, but instead it is three.
Redundancy is better handled through specialised mirrors, similar in spirit to reveddit. That would be even more transparent than the current system - as the mirrors could translate actions like content removal into content highlighting, so it would stick out like a sore thumb*. This would also throw the burden associated with redundancy (transmission, storage, removal of clearly illegal content) into a few machines, instead of the whole network.
I’m aware that it’s a weaker form of federation than the current one but, as long as the front-end handles simultaneous multi-account and merges the feeds of the instances that you’re registered to, it’s already addressing the main needs:
- users can see content from multiple places without registering individually to each
- users don’t need to see what they don’t want to
- content is still spread out, so no instance controls the whole
- admins still have control over who accesses their own instance (through defederation + banning).
*currently you can only find a piece of removed content if you know that it exists.
At a wild guess, it could literally be the communism?
No really, I’m serious: what you are describing sounds to me like there is a sense of “ownership”, as in an instance owns a community, whereupon everything else is lesser than the owner with respect to that particular content - e.g. the others “mirror” the content that is “owned” by the instance that the community is on. A master/slave relationship, in computer science terminology.
In contrast, ActivityPub sounds to me (caveat: I’ve never read the source) like everyone is equal, hence why every action is shared equally by all. A distributed burden. Except without the major traditional benefits of it being distributed - i.e. Aussie.Zone cannot simply connect to some other server instance with less physical distance between it and Lemmy.World, no it must go straight to the source, even when that results in a 7-day delay (and even that cutoff is only because things older than that simply get deleted).
On the other hand, there’s nothing stopping someone from not respecting the deletion requests, and instead highlighting that content, in the current Lemmy framework. It would definitely be a deviation from the standard codebase though. And therefore every time there’s an update or patch, there would have to be a merge event to keep that feature functional.
I wonder if the reason your idea is not done is bc it relies too much on “trusting” the client for security reasons? Although… tbf I’m not certain how much that would differ from how things are now.
I’m not sure if the analogy with communism holds well, as communism implies post-scarcity. Perhaps socialism - if you see the current AP protocol as the Soviet economy from 1918 to 22, my proposal is basically a Lenin style New Economic Policy: a step back (less federation) to take two steps forward later (federation growth).
As for the mirrors, secondary (as in backup) would be a good analogy; their main reason to exist would be to make admins+mods accountable. (“Why did you remove [content]? It’s within the rules, even if you disagree with it!”). And ideally it should be possible for a single mirror to work for multiple instances, specially smaller ones. In the meantime, the actual (non-mirror) instances would be on equal grounds.
In contrast, ActivityPub […]
As far as I know, as someone who didn’t read the source either, that’s accurate. aussie.zone is basically mirroring the content of federated instances, to service its users, then when some aussie.zone user posts something there the other instances mirror it.
On the other hand, there’s nothing stopping someone from not respecting the deletion requests, and instead highlighting that content, in the current Lemmy framework. It would definitely be a deviation from the standard codebase though. And therefore every time there’s an update or patch, there would have to be a merge event to keep that feature functional.
In theory, there isn’t. In practice:
- AFAIK this is not something that Lemmy or Mastodon were coded for. It’s unsupported so the person doing it would need to maintain their own fork of the relevant software.
- This becomes specially problematic once users from the non-deleting instance interact with content that, for other instances, has been deleted.
I wonder if the reason your idea is not done is bc it relies too much on “trusting” the client for security reasons? Although… tbf I’m not certain how much that would differ from how things are now.
If I had to take a guess, the reason why W3C, Lemmer-Webber and Prodromou created the AP the current way is because, while you’re raising a baby, you never know the growing pains that it’ll have as a teen.
EDIT WOW THANKS FOR LE GOLD TO LE KNEE KIND STRANGER!
Giving me fucking flashbacks
Because the pedantic shit that the socialist get away with in .ml, Hexbear, and Lemmygrad doesn’t fly here. And because of this, they accuse .World of bias while completely ignoring the fact that their own instances ban people for simply being “liberal.”
Yes, exactly, except the .ml and Hexbear communities aren’t really socialist, it’s just a facade for their authoritarian propaganda.
Sure, there are some actual communists/socialists there, but they’re the minority.
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Drag is an anarchist and doesn’t much like liberal LW or authoritarian ML.
No.
I have nothing against the wolders but the admins of that instance raise more than a few eyebrows. Particularly when they rolled back specific anti hate speech policies in favor of vague common sense ones to stay ahead of the anti-woke crowd.
Kind of feels like they have been trying to take over Lemmy. Which… Could be a lot worse but still rubs me the wrong way.
So far my only beef with the .world admins was their VPN policy. I don’t have any better suggestions, but I still feel it was the wrong choice.
I just learned about the vpn thing a few days ago and its annoying.
we have a VPN policy?
Some of the dumbest and most aggressive comments I’ve seen on Lemmy came from lemmy.world. Most comments on it seem OK, but it does have a reddit-like flavour with a good number of unpleasant users.
hits you in the head with a steel chair like in pro-wrestling
C’mon. Lemmy.World users aren’t aggressive!!! That’s a misconception!
throws salt in your eyes
In fairness, you in particular have lost your mind! (And I for one am glad to not be the only one!:-)
I am really somewhat surprised to hear that honestly. After Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, the worst extremes I see by far come from lemmy.ml. Sort of a “when I see trolling this bad, then >90% of the time it is lemmy.ml”.
After that, yeah, lemmy.world has the largest absolute number of trolls on the Fediverse - you kinda expect some from any large instance, and they are definitely the largest by a wide margin! According to https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, they have >5-fold active users than anyone else. I presume that’s monthly. The next largest instance, is lemmynsfw.com, followed by Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ml, etc. but each of those with 2-3k users compared to lemmy.world’s 17.2k. So the latter is bigger than many others (if not quite all of them) combined.
Trolls from lemmy.world I block individually, but lemmy.ml got so frustrating for me that I blocked the entire instance. I do not regret that in the slightest. It was that or quit Lemmy altogether. Lemmy.world though seems… “manageable”, i.e. not every person from it is worthwhile to talk to, but enough are that it’s worth blocking only the trolls while keeping the rest, imho.
Many of the .ml and Hexbear trolls have .world accounts as well
Yup. And if instances started defederating from lemmy.ml but not from lemmy.world, then even more accounts on the latter would be created as well. They - as they have continuously stated, publicly - really have zero interest in leaving people alone who simply don’t want to hear their shit.
Though the ones with Lemmy.world accounts cannot read posts on hexbear.net directly, so that’s a bit of a barrier.
What’s wrong with punching nazis?
Was expecting this comment, I used to be a pacifist, after asking why people would* punch nazis in asklemmy, I read a few books they reccomended and I changed my mind.
tldr: nothing.
edit: * if it is morally correct
It doesn’t do as much damage as biting them
Not a god damned thing!
It doesn’t happen enough?
I’d say the biggest criticism is that it’s the largest instance, and is also a “general purpose” instance, which sort of takes away from the main goal of the fediverse. When 90% of content comes from one instance, it opposes the goal of decentralization.
I chose lemdro.id because it’s nice and fast, the admins are very good, and its main topic is around technology/software which I like
I don’t think the existence of large instances is in itself strictly antithetical to decentralization. The network effect makes them inevitable.
The power in the fediverse is everyone has a standard toolset to interact with the entire fediverse. Most people won’t, and that’s okay. The important thing is that, should larger communities become too oppresive as they gentrify, replacing them is a cheap decision, as you and everyone like-minded with you can squad up and leave at any time and lose nothing as the standard tooling of the platform facilitates that migration. You have mobility in the fediverse, and that permits choice to those who seek it.
This will stop being true once the larger instances start augmenting their experiences with proprietary nonsense. Features that only work there, that you can invest into and become dependant on, that you’d have to give up if you leave.
The day that happens will be the day that chunk of the Fediverse dies. Or, well, it won’t die, it will probably flourish and do very well. But it won’t be the Fediverse anymore. It will just be another knee-high-fence-gated community, that happens to run on Fediverse tech.
.world runs into issues because it’s overwhelmingly liberal and the mods are anti-Marxist on a platform built by Communists and dominated by leftists in general. They also defederated from the major Marxist instances. Lemmy.world is largely a replication of Reddit as well, so people leaving Reddit also don’t necessarily want that either.
It’s also by far the largest instance, not necessarily in a good way. It tends to dominate the fediverse and thus their mods and admins have an outsized voice, even if federation helps combat that issue.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world, you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world
It’s one of the easiest instances to join, thanks in no small part to the focus on growth over doctrinaire censorship. Consequently, a lot of people who don’t like .world end up joining it just to get access to the other more tightly administered communities.
They also defederated from the major Marxist instances.
From what I recall the issue was that users from those instances acted like weapons grade cunts and it was just easier to defederate from them rather than the admins and mods have to deal with all the issues that came with them. They didn’t block them simply because they’re Marxist instances.
They defederated from Hexbear “as a last resort-” before ever federating with Hexbear.
In the Lemmygrad defederation thread, there’s unsupported claims of hate speech and calls to violence, which we have to fill in the blanks - the mods are anti-Marxist and anti-revolution, so any Marxist instance is going to fail that test.
The Hexbear defederation thread is somehow worse when they list why instead of leaving it to the imagination. Read some of the top comments, it’s clear that it was anti-Socialist in motive. Real spooky scary zingers listed as evidence in the post like “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.” This statement is 100% obvious to anyone not stanning the US Empire.
Another example listed is “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.” Yet again, they are defederated for being Marxists, and therefore being revolutionary. This is just because they are authentically Marxist, not because posters were mean.
The mods of Lemmy.world are Liberals. Not just any liberals, but “true believers.” Marxism is dangerous to them and so they shut it out, they spelled it out plainly.
someone comparing .world with .ml in politics
Everyone to the left of me is a psychotic delusion America-hating Tankie.
I’m a rational, centrist clear-eyed moderate making fact-based decisions using my extensive expertise on the subject matter.
Everyone to the right of me is a Russian bot or a troll.
The instance structure conveniently groups people together and labels them. Stereotyping, bias and tribalism are the natural result.
I miss Kbin.social
Come on over to fedia.io. It’s like kbin.social but works.
I’m on fedia.io, but I still miss kbin.social. :/
I miss myspace. But then I started thinking about it. If MySpace came back, 100% exactly as it was in 2006, I don’t think I could use it. Too many privacy concerns in the modern day.
So I DO miss MySpace, but I guess I also miss the innocence of 2006’s lack of privacy concerns too.
I hate to admit it, but I don’t. Even before it entered the purgatory it’s stuck in at the moment, there was a severe spam and bot problem in the largely abandoned local magazines.
If it came back now, something would have to be done about that, and though I have been previously, I’m not up for volunteering to do it.
The only real loss here is the (lack of) continued development of the Kbin software. Mbin might be a descendent, even the heir apparent, but it’s not the original.
mbin: 👁️👄👁️
Same. Mastodon was nice to shit post to when Lemmy dried up.
Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
You betcha buddy. Joking. For myself, at least.
Idk what’s going on with Flying Squid, but a lot of the trolls accounts I see are from .world so people are probably starting to associate that instance with those kinds of people.
I don’t think FlyingSquid is a troll; I just think they tend to be argumentative and opinionated (I can be those things as well, so I’m not really judging when I say so).
He is also very heavy handed. The entire admin team is (not necessarily a bad thing). I was banned from a community for reporting a comment that insulted me directly because they didn’t like a joke I made. The joke was a harmless word pun, the comment I reported called me an idiot. But I was the one banned. Resource? None, calling the mod chat to argue a community ban is discouraged and also an offense. My account could be banned just for pointing it out in this comment. But that’s just the way things are here. I had to block FS because he tended to argue in bad faith with me whenever I happened to comment in the same post as him.
Oh yeh i got a lifetime ban and he banned another user for the same thing but 2 days.
LyingSquid is the most biased unqualified person to be in a position of power. And he rages so often in the comments, you can tell he stews over shit to target people later.
Yup, and I would gladly say for Israelis to get fucked again.
Now go do a Zionist doing the same shit to Palestinians and see how lenient Squid is to them.
Flying Squid isn’t technically an admin. He just seems like he is because he mods too many communities.
He got angry when I corrected something; he saw it as a personal slight. Odd to me but so be it.
Their usually fine but the smallest things set them off. Usually not an issue unless you’re unlucky enough to be where they mod.
My favorite is still how they’ll ban people for TOS but leave the comment(s) then not understand why that could be bad
The Troll thing I mentioned was more regarding the hate for .world accounts. I’m a little skeptical of some, especially the newer ones.
I’ve seen some of Flying Squids’ comments, but its not like I’ve been following them closely. I don’t think they’re saying anything wrong, based on what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t begrudge someone for being passionate. That just shows me they care.
People on reddit used to think I was lying about stuff I did in my youth, because nobody would do those things today. I absolutely did them. I wasn’t on drugs, most of the time, I’m just a weird person who stopped giving a FUUUUUUUCK about people in kindergarten when I gave Tim Caldwell a teenage mutant ninja turtles fruit pie…and he FUCKING THREW IT ON THE GROUND!!! I’m sorry, you do NOT throw a 1980s green ooze TMNT hostess fruit pie ON THE FUCKING GROUND when a fat kid gives you one! You treasure that shit, that he thought highly enough of you to give you one! It was at that moment I realized that other people do no matter. I’m the greatest human being alive, and I no longer need to worry about other people or the consequences of my actions.
So I threw my pants down, threw him to the ground, and sat on his face. Nothing sexual. I was 5. So was he. I was just humiliating him on the school yard, by shoving my butt in his face.
But on reddit, they would say things like “Pics or it didn’t happen!”. And I would reply “Let me get this straight…you want me to send you pictures of my bare ass when I was 5 years old? Even if those pictures existed, sending them, or even having them in my OWN possesion would be highly illegal!”
They didn’t think that through. But I’m not a troll. I’m just an idiot.
Based purely on this comment alone. You seem to have the most fitting username I’ve ever seen. That was wild read lol. Thanks for the laugh.
Is it concerning that me reading your comment didn’t narrow it down WHICH comment you were replying to AT ALL for me? 100% of the time I need to click the context button to know whatevery anyone is talking about. My comments range from the politically divisive, to the absurdist satire, to stories of days gone by…and any story involving me is already going to be weird.
Drag likes you and likes weird.
Was the lonely island skit based on your life story? 😜
