Update, yes there are snipers:
Nixon invades Cambodia, campuses across the country erupt in protest, armed troops deployed to deal with the unrest on an Ohio campus, guns pointed at students to intimidate them into dispersing…hmmm, can’t remember what happened next…everything calmed down, I think, right?
Edit: Autocorrect betrayed me.
God blessed the students with omniscient insight, so they reverted their concerns and joined the army to establish democracy all over the world. An eagle, sounding like a red-tailed hawk, was heard screeching in the distance.
This summer I hear the drumming.
Do you hear the people sing?
4 dead in O-Hi-O
For those of us with third world level history what happened?
They were shot. Kent State shooting if you want to look into it more.
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Lol depends where the books came from.
I think they built some cool light fixtures for kids to study by or something.
They actually did put in light fixtures to mark 4 random spots in the parking lot, no one knows why they chose those exact locations or the number 🤔.
Never forget Kent State, but also never forget the Orangeburg Massacre.
We’re so different from those godless immoral Chinese communists, something like Tianenman Square would never happen here.
Lol.
Lmao, even.
Did they shoot and kill as many as in Tiananmen or less?
Translation: Threats of violence are fine for a government to regularly make as long as no one has died.
Not authoritarian at all
But they have these at football games and other major events including political events and so on too? Why is this any different, especially when considering it’s related to the Middle East and considering what happens w/ suicide bombers?
These spotters are different from the police shootings in the Kent State incident, no?
So because the students are protesting about something happening in the Middle East, you jump straight to worrying about suicide bombers? Not all Arabs are ISIS my dude, your bias is showing
This has nothing to do with bias, and everything to do with prior incidents (9/11, namely… but also the '93 bombing, the 2009 fort hood shooting the 2013 Boston marthon bombing, the 2015 san bernardino attack and the 2016 orlando nightclub shooting)
Further, I’m not super thrilled about you accusing me of being a racist because I’m concerned about a prevalent concern/non-zero likelihood risk or threat. Don’t assume maliciousness where ignorance may suffice. Flies. Vinegar. Honey.
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3Edgy5me
master troll 4 sure bro
If your basis for ethical governance is splitting hairs about relative body count, stop, go back, you fucked up. But also: give them a minute. It’s the cops we’re talking about here. They might be a little slow, but they’ll get the job done eventually.
… I’d say the body count for which your government murders you is pretty damn relevant without splitting hairs lmfao.
Emphasis “relative”. The US govt and agents thereof (read: police) murder and brutalize often enough, and even get quite upset when people get upset over their doing it. That’s why I say it’s splitting hairs.
As far as i know the US state kills about thousand people each year on US soil
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Uh, okay. I see what you’re playing at here, yeah, Tianenman Square happened, but that doesn’t mean that the US is then free and clear. We have a similar spirit of authoritarianism with a strong national myth about how it’s okay for us because we’re the “good guys” (spoiler alert).
More to the point, we have a militarized police force that aggressively puts down any meaningful protest. Our police regularly kill, maim, and brutalize people for no other reason than to put them in their place. My point isn’t China good, my point is making fun of all the people who hand-wring about China and communism while we already live under a not-so-different dumbfuck authoritarianism ourselves.
I definitely agree, I’m all for ACAB. I was just making the express observation (prior to my comment being deleted by the owner) that, this is not one of those cases.
If we aren’t fair, reasonable, and dead honest on these points in our protests, they won’t be taken seriously. And when protests aren’t take seriously things get dangerous, and I don’t want to see legitimate protest against the police state turn into damnation or terrorism charges, more than they already are.
Thanks for being civil and having a conversation about this
Then AMAA.
All Motorcyclists Are Assholes.
Let’s try this again without the Tiananmen Square Massacre copy pasta, at the explicit request of “seahorse” the Midwest social owner:
The difference between the two is that there was no weapon here. You can’t even make out what’s in front of the dude in black but most everyone here took a Twitter post as fact.
The Tiananmen Square massacre, on the other hand, did happen and did kill people. That’s the difference here.
I responded to the comment with the copypasta. Anyway, the point isn’t China good, the point is making fun of all the people in the US that screech about Chinese authoritarianism like we haven’t been captured by our own stupid fucking brand of authoritarianism.
We can keep that chain here one sec [edited]
I definitely agree, I’m all for ACAB. I was just making the express observation (prior to my comment being deleted by the owner) that, this is not one of those cases.
If we aren’t fair, reasonable, and dead honest on these points in our protests, they won’t be taken seriously. And when protests aren’t take seriously things get dangerous, and I don’t want to see legitimate protest against the police state turn into damnation or terrorism charges, more than they already are.
Thanks for being civil and having a conversation about this
“The difference between the two is that there was no weapon here.”
Source?
Edit: downvoting someone for asking to provide source for your claim. Guess we’re cool with making stuff up. To those interested: look into how Russia was caught with their Facebook farms setup in Africa to sow disinformation ahead of the 2016 election season.
I won’t feel bad for asking for legitimate source information.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/04/26/snipers-college-protests-gaza/
Nothing conclusive I can see yet from AP etc, but it is a bit suspicious the universities and police are not responding/stonewalling requests for information from journalists, if they had no snipers how hard would it be to say there were no snipers?
Also a healthy skepticism isn’t afraid of questioning sources I wouldn’t apologize for it either, but it can also be a rhetorical tactic that sometimes is difficult to tell if it’s genuine or not. Not an excuse just an observation.
I appreciate your candor and civility, it’s much easier for us to talk and correct any miscommunications when we’re at the same level. Thank you.
I totally agree, the whole thing screams PR/scrambling to quench any flames, rather than to just come forth with the raw, uncensored/stretched truth. We deserve to have that from our government at the very fucking least.
It does look like the top right of the banner in the OP
Agreed, but I still want to know what the source is.
I’ve also come to learn about marksman which are basically cops setup at major events with lots of people to prevent suicide bombers
Now that’s a double edged sword, especially because of, well all that the police have been doing since, well the beginning it would seem. I can’t trust a cop to do a routine traffic stop without shooting someone, I certainly would be concerned about one with a sniper at a high-stress/high movement event like this.
I can definitely see this being real now, but I’m not sure if I agree with it or not - I agree that a terrorist attack at an event like this would be devastating and I wouldn’t want that to happen either, but I don’t trust that the police are being trained appropriately or being audited/actioned on appropriately.
Ultimately my shitty initial tone and attitude were what bit me in the ass in this thread, despite just trying to get confirmation on the information from an appropriate source, so I’m just going to leave well enough alone now.
To hell with your christofacist state. Worshipping a god of wrath like the abrahamic god is even worse than worshipping your own megalomaniac self
Take a breath, homie. It’s a play on an old cold war saying. I’m IRL a Buddhist.
But don’t worry guys! The first amendment guarantees a right to assemble. The police wouldn’t ever do anything to infringe on our rights! If they were to do it, I’m sure there’d be a really sick folk song written about it or something
On the evening of May 13, 1985, longstanding tensions between MOVE, a black liberation group, and the Philadelphia Police Department erupted horrifically. That night, the city of Philadelphia dropped a satchel bomb, a demolition device typically used in combat, laced with Tovex and C-4 explosives on the MOVE organization, who were living in a West Philadelphia rowhome known to be occupied by men, women, and children. It went up in unextinguished flames. Eleven people were killed, including five children and the founder of the organization. Sixty-one homes were destroyed, and more than 250 citizens were left homeless.
Folks familiar with this incident had a remarkably different take on the Waco siege and subsequent fire that resulted when the FBI surrounded David Koresh’s church compound. Same with the Ruby Ridge US Marshal slaying of a white nationalist’s wife and son, during an investigation into gun sales.
Then there’s the assassination of Fred Hampton and Malcolm X, the police storming of the Occupy Wall Street camps in New York, the COINTELPRO operations that targeted anti-war movements during the Bush Administration, the incredibly violence by police in Ferguson and Baltimore during the BLM marches, police kidnappings in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and LA during the George Floyd protests.
I got to personally witness the mass arrest of protesters in Houston, after they were surrounded and kettled in Discovery Green Park.
America is a cursed land. Something something maybe don’t build your country on an ancient indian burial ground something something.
Guess when they apologized for it. (Spoiler - 35 years later)
And guess what they tried and failed to do with remains of the victims. (Spoiler - destroy them without consent from family members)
We got lucky our curse just turns the microwave on every now and then.
Don’t worry guys, we’re the land of the free /s
Out of curiosity, what were the remarkably different takes on Waco and Ruby Ridge?
The popular take was that the FBI did nothing wrong and Koresh simply had to be stopped at all costs. The more /r/unpopularopinion take was that Janet Reno had something to prove, that the FBI recklessly flooded the compound with flammable gas, and that these deaths were entirely preventable had Bob Ricks not wanted to rush the surrender.
Ruby Ridge was a similar story. Initially, news media portrayed the Weavers as insurrectionists intent on personally waging war on the entire federal government. The US Marshals were given the initial benefit of the doubt, despite the incident turning hot when a marshal shot the family dog and then the Weaver’s 14-year-old boy who was working it.
Oh. I thought that over in the USA the default position was that the feds were in the wrong. Not a day goes by without conservatives talking about how the feds murder dogs.
People love to hate it but the second amendment is also a thing. Now don’t get me wong I don’t want this to happen ever to anyone…but there was a time when strikers would shoot and be shot at on the reg.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_violence_in_the_United_States
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
Union workers got bombed by company men in the skirmishes and the fucking president had to send in troops to stop the fighting.
LOL they really did successfully rewrite the history on that one. The troops fought WITH the companies, not against them. The only reason they backed off is because they were losing. Had they continued, the legitimacy of the regime would have been brought into question. Not only because they were literally going to war with its own citizens, but also that those citizens were absolutely kicking their fucking asses.
We’re talking about an empire that could barely hold their own when fighting against a nonviolent people with primitive technology, and then went on to lose a war against fucking farmers in Vietnam. The odds couldn’t be further in their favor and yet they keep collecting Ls. If people collectively realized just how much of a complete joke these fascist clowns are, they would run away pissing themselves crying. God only knows what would happen if a nation actually engaged them in war on their soil. They’re not even at war and the entire place is already crumbling.
Remember that US intelligence services speculated in using snipers to kill “Occupy Wall Street” protesters on university campuses.
FBI coordinated with banks and universities to get information on students.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy
Should be treated like they are? Okay, so full outrage, comparisons to the Kent State massacre, and the administration facing reprisals and consequences for deploying snipers to intimidate, threaten, and potentially murder students.
We’re treating them like they’re snipers, Admin, you’re welcome.
Good. Update, they’re snipers.
Aye thanks for this. The first pic was up for interpretation. Also WTF?
The image may be ligit but please temper your outrage until the facts are clear.
The fuck Ohio.
Is that “not at all a sniper” wearing pantyhose over their head?
Dude looks like he’s smiling
“This is just like American Sniper. I am the American Sniper!”
Yeah, you’re putting snipers on a university aimed at the students. That’s not the behavior of a government that values personal freedoms like speech and assembly.
Free speech on college campuses means they have to pay bigots to speak and allow disruption from religious protests by non students, but students get riot cops and snipers for protesting genocide
Shoot first
So climb the building and eliminate the threat? How else do you deal with snipers?
Wtf… Cops in riot gear arresting students before 10pm, and fucking SNIPERS intimidating in a peaceful one night protest on a college campus. And a university spokesperson saying “demonstrators exercised their first amendment right for several hours and then were instructed to disperse” like yeah, that’s enough first amendment right for you guys, go be quiet now.
Nope. Just nope. You are not free. Burn it all to the ground before it’s too late or we’re actually fucked.
I was with you until the “burn it all to the ground”.
If you don’t have something to replace it with, the rich and powerful will simply take advantage of the chaos.
Tear down the bad, but keep the good, and build more good.
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ACAB
Those aren’t cops.
What are they?
They Snipers
ASAB?
Not if they take out the right perp
You need to have authority to be a sniper. Who has the authority for lethal law enforcement?
You need to have authority to be a sniper.
Is that even true?
Sniping is not something you self-discover. You’re trained by a government-sanctioned organization.
Nah man when there’s a terrorist threat or some kids are getting fesity we call up those smitty brothers down on farmdale ave. I’ve seen em hit smack in the middle of grandma’s can o beans from a mile and a half away in the rain – i swears it!
Um…YES
The police don’t just pull farm boys with a crack shot every time they have a sporting event. They are fucking cops. Not only cops, but specialty cops. SWAT cunts. My homie is one - went from infantry to ranger to police to swat. Yeah - he’s a cunt, too. ACAB.
Stupid answer.
All Coloured Are Bastards? Don’t you think it’s a bit racist?
All Carsalesmen Are Bastards.
Defund the dealerships!
So not justifying this response, but they have snipers out for EVERY football game. I think it is standard practice for large gatherings. You can make your own opinions on this, but this isn’t a unique thing.
This is a US thing
Which would make it not unusual for US events yes?
For a protest on a university campus? I mean, the US already has a great history with innocent students being murdered for speaking out, so… Yeah, not unusual for the US.
Europe has snipers at football stadiums too. One of the first, mainstream, acknowledgements of them was when a protestor parachuted onto the field during the Germany-France Euro match in 2020. When people got mad they said it was common practice to have snipers at most events of this size.
Yeah, cuz thrice-weekly mass shootings are a US thing. I’m not getting into a chicken-and-egg circkejerk with anyone about which came first, but as long as “we the people” are gonna keep shooting large gatherings of our fellow citizens…especially if we think they disagree with us, then any controversial or highly public event is gonna be crawling with armed police…including snipers.
Honestly, I’d have snipers at any large gathering. Mass shootings/stabbings/drivings/bombings have recently taken place in Europe, Russia, and other parts of the world. It’s good to have security when there are tens or hundreds of thousands of people gathered in a place (eg, the Olympics, mega concerts, wtc)
I’m not that well-versed in US policy for this stuff, but if it’s standard practice why would they lie about it?
Because the first photo is not of snipers, it’s observers. When the person who took it asked, that’s what they were told.
The second photo is when they saw the actual sniper.
Apparently the issue is people asked the University if there were snipers, at 8:15 pm they replied there weren’t, and later said they deployed them at 10 pm.
More reasonable than what it looked like but still kinda crazy, at least from my outside perspective.
Jesus
Normal country.
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As someone who’s worked large events and closely with police or other big wig officials, I am consistently surprised at how people are surprised about how high profile event security works.
The amount of work that goes into keeping people safe regularly is monumental. You’d also be surprised at just how much hard targets don’t get attacked when a limelight is cast on them compared to soft targets. It’s violence prevention 101 and easily the most important.
If you see something, say something.
PDF warnings:
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/whats-next-soft-target-attacks
Agreed, most of the responses here are ridiculous.
They bring snipers out anytime there’s a big event or a major public figure. Michelle Obama visited the University of Akron when I was going there, they had snipers all over the place.
They’re not bringing out snipers for some kind of perverted crowd control. It’s almost definitely so if someone shows up with a gun and starts firing into the crowd all the protestors don’t get shot.
Yep b3causr there’s absolutely no difference in armed defense when the president or first lady is visiting and when students are protesting, none at all.
He’ll might as well tell the students of tiananmen square that tanks are just a normal part of defence.
🤡
Have you considered what would happen if an active shooter, consider one that’s pro-Israel, showed up in that crowd and they didn’t have a sniper?
Tell me you wouldn’t be over here screaming “ACAB” when the cops are unable to get to the shooter (and have to risk firing through a crowd or do nothing) because there are hundreds of college students between where the cops are standing and where the active shooter is.
Having a sniper on the roof is in no way similar to a tank running someone over in the street. There is no practical application for a tank vs a civilian population. There is 100% a valid reason to use a highly skilled marksman to increase the odds that if something bad does happen, it’s stopped quickly, and you can get EMTs to the injured parties.
Your position is offensively wrong.
EDIT: Minor edit to remove a swear and switch to textual emphasis.
You Americans truly live in a weird world.
https://files.catbox.moe/u7hicb.mp4
The cops are not there to protect the protestors.
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Yeah and it’s just a nice little coincidence that they could be used on the protestors too right?
Give me ONE incident of an active duty US sniper (police or military) EVER shooting a SINGLE protestor with even so much as a rubber bullet. Otherwise your argument is complete bull shit.
Edit: This isn’t some “good guy with a gun” or “untrained beat cop” situation. This is a sniper.
Edit 2: For anyone who wants to understand what is almost certainly happening here, watch this video https://youtu.be/PnEB5u2wqEY?si=58MTT_sqv1Tf7Lv6. This is standard procedure when you get these large gatherings to protect people. This person is actively encouraging increased risk to the safety of the protestors (and everyone else involved), while making personal attacks, and completely unfounded claims about this being some form of political persecution. It’s IMO ridiculous and indefensible behavior regardless of where you stand on the Israel and Gaza situation.
Does Kent State not count?
Those are not snipers, they were untrained national guardsman that shouldn’t have ever been there. No Kent does not count.
Yea but those were hippy beatniks so it’s fine.
/S
In that case it was a bunch of National guardsmen, not snipers so he’s not wrong if he’s talking just snipers.
Kent state. There’s your one. Do you want two?
As I already told the other person: Those were not snipers, they were national guardsman that were untrained for that kind of work and they shouldn’t have ever been there.
The 40ish arrests kinda lean towards this being intimidation. Also I think shooting into a crowd (where these teams where pointing) has never been a good idea and as far as I can tell no evidence exists of even a single time a sniper team has been successfully used in any crowded area. (If you find some please share)
It’s not intimidation because it’s normal for any large crowd. The snipers are not there to arrest anybody. The snipers are not going to assassinate some random college student.
You’re also not going to find “the snipers really saved the day” articles because they’re just going to say “the police” in pretty much any article praising a police response. They also don’t normally shoot their guns and are more to assist the folks on the ground with figuring out where trouble is and how to get to it.
You could do a lot of the same job with a pair of binoculars. I’m sure they don’t because it’s just another expense and then you need to switch from binoculars to a rifle and find the target again if something does go sideways.
Give me ONE incident of an active duty US sniper (police or military) EVER shooting a SINGLE protestor with even so much as a rubber bullet. Otherwise your argument is complete bull shit.
So because that very specific combination of a sniper shooting a protestor in America hasn’t happened yet that makes it okay? Snipers have shot other civilians, the police have shot protestors and police snipers have shot protestors before in other countries. So you would have to be really dishonest to pretend that means it’s fine.
Edit: This isn’t some “good guy with a gun” or “untrained beat cop” situation. This is a sniper.
“Police violence is okay as lk g as they are trained”
So was this shooting justified then because the sniper wasn’t as untrained as a random beat cop?
Like I get you’ve committed to the position and there’s no way you’re mature enough to deviate from that now, but my god this is such a bad hill yo die on.
Did you even read the article you linked? A dude shot his girlfriend in the head with a shotgun. Then was taking shots in the dark (literally) shooting from a building while he had a baby in his arms. That could not be more different of a situation from stopping an active shooter in a public gathering. It also has absolutely nothing to do with using snipers as some means of intimidating protestors or suppressing political speech. This was a very tricky domestic situation that went wrong.
This article also says:
A former federal law enforcement sniper, whose name KCUR is withholding because he now works in the private sector, said “99.9 percent of the time” snipers are relaying information to commanders, not firing their weapons.
The most important rule for a sniper is they “must be absolutely sure of the identity” of any target. That directive is on page one of the FBI’s Advance Rifle Training manual.
Don’t you dare start talking about maturity. You’ve been more than happy to make numerous personal attacks and inflammatory remarks.
I’m done with this conversation. You can believe what you want but you are very very wrong about the facts and risks of this situation and the personal attacks do nothing to help your argument.
Bro this is literally standard practice. Most planned large events get all kinds of police presence. Including snipers and plainclothes.
So that makes it okay to have riot police intimidate these protestors and have snipers point weapons at peaceful protedtors?
Listen, we know what’s happening there but the snipers aren’t the problem…
I am angry a little because everyone consumes these sort of news without question.
Then someone does a post, most upvoted comment is seen as most true and correct and it all poisons our reality. Spoofing. Matrix.
If you’ve ever been to a professional sporting event, you have almost certainly been at the business end of a rifle scope.
Wait they put up snipers in my bedroom whenever it’s time to “do the hanky-panky”?
Nah, they just have Google monitor you.
Because when my HPP and me get down to bizniz, you’d think it’s a professional sporting event, because of the passion dripping from the walls!!!
Yeah, I’m not even from the USA and even I know that you guys do that a lot.
I’m really not sure a sniper would be super useful in that situation. Obviously, different environment than the 2017 las vegas shooting, but I don’t really think that those snipers on rooftops would really be effective at all in taking out a committed shooter, which could just shack up in one of the many buildings with windows facing the crowd and fire down or into the crowd. Maybe in that case, a sniper might be able to peep out where the shooter is, or might be able to get a shooter on the way in or out, but with the level of people there and the level of surrounding buildings, I’m really not sure they’d be able to do very much. Obviously if someone just walks in off the street and opens up on everyone, then a sniper might be more effective, but I dunno.
It seems insane to me because I’ve only met armed police once in my life, and that was at download festival in the UK after a spree of terrorist attacks across the UK and the rest of Europe.
That was quite entertaining however as the armed police kept having to run away from drunk people who wanted pictures taken with the guns.
Fucking cowards.
I welcome them. Hamas isn’t known for their peaceful protests.
You welcome snipers being used on American students protesting the use of their money to fuel an ongoing genocide? You’re a monster, lol
I never encouraged a shot or for the students to be shot.
I do encourage common sense safety measures around the potential for violence.
Because college peaceful protests are so historically notorious for violence.
Your common sense is pretty fucking uniquely crazed
When’s the last time anyone managed to decolonize or destroy apartheid without organized violent resistance?
Brain-dead troll take right here.
Hate to break it to you, but more than half the Lemmy community is brain dead.
You’re being down voted but you’re very right. The tankies on Lemmy are almost just as annoying as the right wingers on reddit. Quite impressive tbh.
I’m gonna get downvotes too but you guys are right. It doesnt matter what social media forum you go.on they all end up the same in the end. Definitely plenty of brain dead takes on lemmy, it doesn’t matter where those posters came from because they ARE part of lemmy now even if people want to pretend that doesn’t count (it does).
Conservatives
Liberalism is when you blame conservatives for what you’re both doing.
Le sigh… Time for another crosspost to a boring distopia.
This doesn’t qualify… It’s just dystopia.
I think the replys normalizing snipers at events is the part that makes it qualified…
Lots of places in the US have snipers due to the possibility of terrorist threats, mass shooters, and attackers (eg. Major events like the super bowl), the thing about these snipers is that they’re there to make sure the protestors don’t get too out of hand.
It’s the difference between shooting an intruder trying to bang down your door, and shooting your own kid for being too noisy.
the thing about these snipers is that they’re there to make sure the protestors don’t get too out of hand.
We have absolutely no idea if that’s the case or not. Considering that snipers are often used when a lot of people are together to protect against terrorism and idiots with guns, it’s safe to assume the same here as well. Unless there is some evidence to the contrary of course.
I don’t think shooting into a crowd has ever worked to calm a situation. I seem to remember it not working to well in Boston when the British still ran the place.
My God the bootlicking in this thread
Look up at the sky, at the dark shapes of Coalition airships hanging there. Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.
In case anyone wants to see the university’s now removed claim these are not snipers here is the wayback link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240426123527/https://www.thelantern.com/2024/04/university-confirms-there-are-no-snipers-on-the-ohio-unions-roof/
