If you were an all knowing all powerful god who supposedly loves everyone unconditionally, would you create a fiery pit and send people there for all eternity?
You don’t understand. I touched my peepee. I deserve this.
I murdered 50 people. But then I found Jesus, so I’m going to heaven. This is fair.
I’m a member of an uncontacted tribe, and was going to go to heaven for being completely ignorant of Jesus, but now that you told me about him, I’m going to hell if I don’t convert.
I literally murdered by son and offered my daughters to be raped by the entire town. I’m going to heaven!
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God never loved anyone unconditionally. My favorite Bible quote:
Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. …whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. — Matthew 25:41–43 (NIV)
He very explicitly hates selfish people. VERY specifically these people, spoken by Jesus, this group of people are damned to hell. Gays, never spoken of by Jesus, btw.
Any entity who tortures their creations for eternity based solely on their performance over a ~80 year time span is not an entity worthy of worship.
Any entity that either permits or doesn’t have the power to prevent suffering on earth isn’t worthy of worship either.
If there is a supreme being, they’ve either failed or they’re malevolent.Of course! They ate shrimps!
Anyway, like I was sayin’, shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey’s uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried.
The fiery pit/dante’s hell version doesn’t actually exist in the bible. The main thing about hell is you don’t experience god’s love/presence, which is weird but a lot better than an eternity of torture.
What about the post right above you?
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.God’s love seems a little temperamental and reserved for some nasty people. I think I’m good on God’s love.
Oh he is, but that post above is Mathew talking.
The example Id use is the book of Job. Basically Satan and God conspire to make a faithful guy’s life horrible.
So why have churches been threatening their victims with hell for centuries? Could it be they all make it up as they go along?
The rest of the stuff you said isn’t in the Bible either
Anyone who has the power to put you there for eternity probably has the power to make it so you don’t get used to it
At what point does it stop being a punishment and just all you’ve ever experienced?
Like how would they make it so you don’t get use to it? Erase your memory every 10 minutes? Sounds like the end of those 10 minutes is relief. So all you’ve ever experienced is 10 minutes of pain than relief. Doesn’t sound so bad. Even if all you ever remembered was the memories of your past life and then 10 mins of pain at least you would have those good memories to reflect on before you would have relief again.
You’re trying to corporealize a concept that is fundamentally non-corporeal. An omnipotent being could make eternal suffering mean suffering eternally simply by virtue of being all-powerful. The means by which this is done is (would be) completely beyond our understanding or even able to be conceived by our current understanding of the world.
Which is exactly why it it’s so obvious that it was created by the minds of men. It doesn’t make sense to our understanding of the world/physics and the only argument anyone has comes down to “well if this all powerful God I can’t prove did exist he’d be able to do all of this in a way we can’t understand!”
Sure, but anyone can theorize an all powerful omnipotent being and then make up whatever rules about them damning/saving you and the necessary conjecture about them being so beyond us that we can’t understand it.
To me that’s just a shield against criticism, a red flag that the person making the argument is attempting to bring it into the realm of unfalsifiability. A very human tendency for a very human idea of god.
… no, that’s your interpretation of what I said. I asked a straight forward question and you put your own spin on it.
A little bit of the salt of relief can bring out the sweetness of suffering
Wasn’t there a modern story about how Sisyphus got used to rolling the boulder and found joy in the nuances and being swole?
I love this interpretation lmao
Assuming there’s enough supernatural power to sustain a torture pit of fire for all eternity, It’s probably trivial to just have you suffer non-stop regardless of any hypothetical limits.
However, even in real life pain receptors are distinct receptors in your body that don’t dull themselves after a while, the way our smell and sight receptors do
pain receptors are distinct receptors in your body that don’t dull themselves after a while
Man, that’s some bullshit.
Come on Body, can’t you just have some, like, nice things that aren’t purely functional?
Pretty sure chronic pain even in regular life is a thing.
Ok but chronic pain happens what, 100 years max?
Now that times infinity…
Ouchie
I always found it funny that they’ve confused the idea of eternal life and death. If you’re burning forever you’re still alive, in some way. So the idea that it’s “death” doesn’t make sense. It would only be death if you were destroyed completely (which is what Jesus says he will do at least once in the gospels) so idk where they get the idea that being tortured forever isn’t eternal life.
It’s not a good one, but it’s still eternal life.
You are absolutely correct. The original Hebrew word in the Bible for hell is Sheol, which means grave, or place of resting. He even says “this is the second death”. You don’t get eternal life, except through accepting him, according to the scripture.
Well it’s not their word for hell, that’s the point. It means death or grave, the idea of hell wasn’t even considered until the Greek started being converted in the first and second century and folded their ideas about the afterlife (including their underworld ‘hel’) into the mix of Jewish belief about death being non-existence and resurrection being the return from non-existence.
That’s how we get the two testaments treating death differently, and the conflation of the word “sheol” to mean hell, when it really just meant being dead.
That’s the point I was trying to make. It’s a mistranslation, or even worse, an intentional change. Even with the word there, there’s enough context to make it clear that the punishment for denying christ is death, not eternal life. “Hell” is eternal, in the sense that you’re dead forever. Those who are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. That’s what it says. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to change the definition of the word death to mean eternal life and torture, where it takes none to acknowledge that you die.
So if im already in hell and while I’m being tortured for eternity I can be like “I’m sorry for detonating Canada in 2052 jesus” and he be like “lmao no prob fam up you go”
The point is that you’re not tortured for eternity. That idea didn’t become popular until Southern Baptist started traveling the states with their fire and brimstone sermons. You are killed, obliterated, dead, for eternity. Game over.
I still don’t understand how eternal life would be a good thing. Seems to me all things would fall away and as the patterns that make up make up consciousness become less and less important you would slip away from your identity.
Now I know you could consider the reseting of your memory or something like that but the moment you start talking that way you’ve introduced some level of reincarnation which is not apart of the Christian belief.
It wouldn’t be, in fact most Christians will self acknowledge that it’s not a good thing with their explanations for the following series of questions.
- Lucifer had free will, and existed in heaven alongside God in the same way that we will supposedly exist alongside God in heaven. It was entirely possible for him to defy/rebel/choose to not be in union with that God and be cast out of heaven. Do we have free will in heaven?
1a. If yes, then do we have the ability to also reject and sin once we are in heaven according to the salvation of Jesus?
1b. If we can’t, then do we have free will?
- If God is altering our state of being in order to make us “ok” with living/worshipping forever, are we still the same individual? Or are we being made into a new being based on a change in our values and desires?
2a. If we are being changed in some way to accept eternity as good/enjoy it, then how do you reconcile that with the idea that God wants communion with beings of free will? If he’s just going to change us to fit the needs of eternity anyways, how is that different than programming sapient robots to worship him? Why go through all of the trouble with having us choose him via free will if he’s going to alter/overwrite our consciousness to make us able to deal with immortality? He might as well just start with that if it’s the endgame.
The only way out of the situation is to claim that we do still have free will in heaven and can choose to rebel at any time, or else you’re dealing with the philosophy and ethics of how changing a sapient being to want things they didn’t before can’t possibly coincide with free will.
I mean your senses would adapt to it which means you would die.
As you cannot die as you are invincible, your nerves cannot take damage. But that would mean your brain would overstimulate and that also cannot take damage.
So either you stay in constant pain, which has to get lower and lower as you cant handle constant pain (legalize Cannabis for those people for fucks sake).
So I guess yes, to stay invincible you have to get used to it.
Or you have pain and damage, but that state resets like all the time. So you would stay in a state of immediate pain, without remembering the past, as it has to be removed entirely, as that pain will harm your brain.
So you would stay in immediate pain without a sense of time, which is probably way way less extreme than you imagine it but still horrible.
So people, just dont believe that crap. When you die its over, and that may be an even harder truth to accept.
Not getting used to it IS the punishment
But how? Like I’m not saying you won’t feel pain or won’t suffer but if we’re talking all of time that is just your state of being having known nothing else.
IDK dude it’s shit some guys in the desert came up with, probably while high
It’s not real. Could be anything
Firey pits are real. But you only need to worry about them while you’re alive, not after you die. Unless of course you don’t wanna be cremated.
All I’m saying is if you expiernced anything for eternity would your understanding of pain or even pleasure have any meaning at all?
Does the concept of eternity have any meaning at all? It’s a very philosophically nebulous thing when taken beyond a superficial level. We can’t fathom existing for a huge number of years anymore than we can conceive being the size of the universe. Spiritually being eternally cast into fire could mean to be removed from the being that is everything which is to be nothing forevermore. Or eternity can just mean until the end of time, which could very well be finite.
I think if Christians advertised no after life as punishment some might find it a pleasant thought. To stop existing… there is no fear in it. It’s our drive for survival that created fear. There is no sorrow in it there is no need for sorrow or happiness because nothingness doesn’t have chemical fueled emotions.
Depends on a whole lot of factors, most of which we don’t even know we don’t know. Presumably, they believe that an all powerful being would find it easy to make sure to maximize the suffering.
You are made of a finite amout on of material. You would only burn for a finite amout of time. The pit is also finite. Your question is wrong.
I guess you never learned the word “if” eh?
also you would die from fire
Through Christ all things are possible, even not getting used to being on fire. I make this sacrifice for Jesus. Who, coincidentally, already suffered for my sins. So… Atheists: 0 Christians: 1
Ah, yes. The all loving Christ who would light you on fire if you don’t love him. Truly a win.
Look. Christ was inconvenienced for a weekend. Cut him some slack.
Imagine believing in an invisible sky person with the power to condemn you to burn for eternity. Grow up.
I made the grave mistake of forgetting the /s. It was a joke, just like Religion.
